Hong Kong the liberal democracy, that you think you knew, never existed. Most in HK will tell you that that have more freedom under China than they ever had under the British

In 1967 the Chinese people in Hong Kong were fighting against the English, English officers killed dozens of Chinese to retain their control on their "democracy". A city they had violently seized decades earlier to push opium and heroin on Chibese people, against the Chinese authorities wishes.

Now white, professional westerners who lost control of China weep and gnash about their supposed moral superiority over China.

The purpose of Hong Kong globally, a port for trade with the closed off China, has been dead for a long time.

Hong Kong is the only business friendly place in the world that’s genuinely independent of the US/EU transatlantic regulatory blob.

The mainland government want to keep it prosperous so will likely work to protect it from sanctions or international regulations.

If you’re a Russian oligarch it’s probably safer to keep your money in HK than Cayman or Switzerland these days. Even if you’re a petrostate sovereign wealth fund or non NATO central bank there’s some value in holding assets that can’t be frozen at will by the US treasury secretary.

You could argue that Signapaore and the UAE compete here but they have much more dependency on the west for security and diplomacy.

Well now it's dependent on the Chinese regulatory blob which I would argue is worse.

The EU is still debating after 3 years of war in Ukraine and weekly nuclear threats what to do with the Russian funds, let's be real, with the same situation in HK, the funds would have been seized within a week.

Not doubting but genuinely curious - what type of situation are you alluding to in which China would freeze a foreign nations funds in HK?

Well, recognizing Taiwan as an independent country for starters. The countries that recognize Taiwan are not recognized as independent states by China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_T...

Good. The HK that existed before was just a British excrescence. Now it's finally returning to its Chinese roots.

Its citizens don't share your enthusiasm.

Some do, some don't. I was there recently, most of natives who I spoke to didn't really care that much, and the people who cared, was basically 50/50 between agreeing to more Chinese control vs against. Still, I'm a foreigner, so I'm likely not getting the full picture, people don't exactly go around flagging they're opposing China's crackdown, so YMMV.

> people don't exactly go around flagging they're opposing China's crackdown

The article is literally about what happens when you go around flagging too hard that you're opposing China's crackdown.

Well, the article is literally about what happens when you're a leader of such movement, not if you're a random person on the street talking with other random people.

People are generally not super closed nor open about it, although some individuals were more closed about it. Most seemed honest when asked about it, but again, YMMV.

If nothing else is crystal clear since the rise of the Internet and the difficulty in censoring happenings it's that the the will of the people is utterly irrelevant in the face of organized assaults by armed thugs, wherever they may be. Most of their efforts in peace time are dedicated to putting in place barriers to movement and access to supply chain logistics by intentionally making them fragile so when push comes to shove the people can't actually push back.

That's quite a defeatist analysis but I agree that online and offline organising is made increasingly harder by mass surveillance and censorship. That's also why I wish China was more interventionist abroad and would be willing to provide(more) support to international liberation movements.

The beatings will continue until they do.

There is a duality.

The Chinese were obviously always opposed to British imperalism and it was a major victory to finally get HK back, even acknowledged in Taiwan.

However, this does not mean that there is no domestic politics with pro and anti communist party, but daily life hasn't changed in HK except from the larger influx of "mainlanders".

The narrative on HK in the West is simplistic and, frankly a little racist. European imperialism and colonialism has long been rejected except somehow for the so great thing it did in HK, conveniently forgetting that the British never had any democracy in HK and acquired HK by pretty nasty means.

And you're conviently forgetting that the British wanted to have full democracy in Hong Kong as they had in places like Canada, Australia and New Zealand but couldn't for fear of upsetting the balance with China.

It was the same thing with British Overseas passports. Britain wanted to issue full passports to Hong Kong citiezens but couldn't because China was heavily against it and so a compromise was sort.

Britain wouldn't make Hong Kong a full democracy and China would stick to one country two systems. That worked well until one side broke its promise.

Yes, I watched the BBC a few years back and saw bureaucrats ranting about what the Chinese owed the English due to English sovereignty or treaties over territory in China. Colonial craziness.

Of course this guy isn't sone factory worker but a CEO. He met with Mike Pence, Pompey and Bolton, i.e. the West so he's "pro democracy".

ICE is in my city pulling people out of their cars, then releasing them with no charges days later. Wish there was some democracy in this country.

This is sad to read as someone who only recently started appreciating Wong Kar Wai films and wants to visit. Although I have been reading about the speech/thought suppression and creative exodus for a long time.