> the human rights they're referring to is that Microsoft was caught providing Azure services to the Israeli army's unit 8200, which used them to surveil millions of hours of Palestinian calls.

That's what I thought initially too, but seems this is about a different human rights issue, particularly in Saudi Arabia: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46097244

Yes, let’s go after US Steel because some guy with a gun shot up a school.

Unless Microsoft is directly supplying the software which surveils instead of just “general purpose compute” this isn’t as big as Norway would want you to believe. They can just terminate the accounts as violations of terms of service and claim that millions of users use azure cloud to serve websites and content, the dance will go on.

I don’t think punishing the steel maker for a gun maker who sold it to a distributor who then sold it to a nut job should be liable for the nut job. This is the same for tech. Sub contractors for Israel government got Azure hosting and subbed it out to Palantir to plant their platform inside (gun maker) and then sold it to Israel (nut job).

Palantir on the other hand…

> Unless Microsoft is directly supplying the software which surveils instead of just “general purpose compute” this isn’t as big as Norway would want you to believe. They can just terminate the accounts as violations of terms of service

They did: https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2025/09/25/update-...

Doesn't the article you linked contradict that? It sounds like they're claiming they only provided general purpose blob storage.

> First, we do not provide technology to facilitate mass surveillance of civilians. We have applied this principle in every country around the world, and we have insisted on it repeatedly for more than two decades. This is why we explained publicly on August 15 that Microsoft’s standard terms of service prohibit the use of our technology for mass surveillance of civilians.

So helping with blob storage or not helping at all? Can't be in dual state.

The Norway wealth fund is a co owner of Microsoft, like everyone with shares. Google says they own 1.35%, worth 50 billion.

If they want Microsoft not to provide "general compute" to the Israeli army then they can try to get a majority of Microsft owners to go along with it.

I think that's not the same as pressure on Microsoft from the outside.

It’s so black and white, it’s a question of signals and eventually consequences. Even if the vote doesn’t pass, that’s not the primary objective here I think.

If Microsoft were providing "general purpose compute to Iran" the US would sanction them.

I definitely agree with you.

And the US would be right to prosecute Microsoft because there are US sanctions against Iran. There are no US sanctions against Israel. Israel is also considered and important ally. So, industry cooperation with defense on both sides is legal.

currently legal is the lowest bar, it doesn't mean it's moral to support a genocidal state.

This is the current conundrum. It’s perfectly legal (and politically recommended) to support this genocidal regime in the name of some guy who lived and died 2000 years ago. Can’t have the dark skinned terrorists perform their cult like rituals on the floor of their beloved sacred holy sites (shared by all three might I add).

It’s faith-based warfare disguised as a terrorist fight and the AI is in full force flooding feeds of aid when the reality is it’s a god damn wasteland.

That’s a nice story spun by the lobbyists in the US and Europe (if there is such a thing in Europe). But said person 2000 years ago was crucified by the Romans at the request of the Jews.

There are Jews of every color - so feeding this as a white vs brown fight is incorrect.

I don’t belong to (nor believe) in any of the 3 religions in this fight. But historically the other two (Christians and Muslims) have been very genocidal.

He himself was a Jew. Doesn’t mean they aren’t shielding behind this being some holy crusade to rid the world of evil hamas.

The whole situation is so fucked no one wants to touch it. Netanwacko is even asking for a pardon for his crimes. Like everyone took DMT and no one cares.

Norway is a sovereign nation, so what's the argument against them taking action based on the Gaza genocide?

Any export increases of gun metal grade, high carbon steel should be a red flag these days to stateside corporations operating in war zones. Structural steel is a low carbon steel that has more 'give' and is easier to weld. It's obvious which is which.

In Sweden's case, however, even pre-war they were already exporting 40% of Germany's demand for raw ore which increased to 50% during wartime iirc. So Germany already had the infrastructure necessary to process the raw materials into steel, and at scale scale beforehand.

In modern warfare, those same foundaries would make easy aerial targets due to the massive heat output from the bessimer process required to make steel from raw ore.

Yes, its general purpose compute. But if you or me use Azure for illegal purpose (pirated content, tax evasion, violence etc etc..), for sure Microsoft won't be sitting idle.

providing compute to someone online radicals happen to not like is not an illegal purpose

What about providing compute to a criminal with an arrest warrant by the ICJ?

What are you talking about?

ICC. ICJ mediates between states. (They could have done a better job with this.)

Norway's sovereign wealth fund are not "online radicals", and many genocide scholars, UN bodies, etc. have also found that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians.

If you want to dispute that claim, fine; reasonable people can disagree about the definition of "genocide" and about what standard of proof is necessary. However, reducing the opposing opinion to "online radicals" is inaccurate.

Actually we should as well, given the shady deals some of them make with politicians, which create a set of cascading events that end up in school shootings as if they were good old saloon fights.

Should we start regulating 3D printers and CNC mills next?

If the number of people killed by guns made at home with 3D printers or CNC mills gets to the same ballpark as those killed by commercial guns, sure, it's a conversation to have.

Probably yes, if everyone starts building guns with them.

Thoughts and prayer will surely work this time.

It’s more akin to an arms manufacturer knowingly supplying a genocidal regime.

As for targeting Palantir instead, boycott, divestment, and sanctions is most effective when it targets all the complicit players.

It's relevant because Microsoft, like all big companies, have Human Rights Pricinples and such that are part of the company. It's basically impossible to get big institutional investment without it.

The issue is that they were caught not following their practices, and then lying about it. So the shareholders are asking that they produce a report about whether they are following their own human rights principles.

And Satya is resisting it, because it is very clear that they are not following them, as workers [1] have been calling out for years now. Many leaked documents have shown that Microsoft actually embeds employees directly with the IDF and makes millions in service contracts with them. [2]

[1] https://noazureforapartheid.com/ [2] https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/microsoft-azure-israel-top-cu...

For anyone that is still green on company politics, all company principles are check boxes that form part of an HR circus of yearly compliance trainings, and marketing for young employees that are naive enough to think they mean anything.

Perhaps this reflects your experience, in your part of the world. In some parts of the world, principles and ethics do count, and don’t change on a dime (as they do in the US).

Several European countries.

Regardless of the part of the world, corruption happens when the right price gets negotiated.

It can be money, a favour, need to help someone in need, needing to meet specific sales KPIs,...

Shhhh, you’ll scare away the new hires that have to pay the interest on the loans they were told would get them there.

In my experience working at several US health IT companies, company principles for following HIPAA rules (especially patient privacy) were taken seriously at all levels and considered more than just compliance check boxes. Regardless of the ethical issues, if you get a reputation for being sloppy and the trade press writes negative articles then that can kill your sales pipeline.

HIPAA has nothing to do with the usual company values I was talking about.

HIPAA is a certification process for industry deployments.

Nope. There is no certification process in HIPAA for that. Have you read the law?

A way of speaking, it has nothing to do with stuff like "Do no evil", "Respect, Achievement, Renewal, and Challenge", "Excellence, Innovation, and Responsibility" and similar word games with a yearly HR training, just to check a box.

>Many leaked documents have shown that Microsoft actually embeds employees directly with the IDF.

Are you sure it's not the other way around?

That's the yardstick people use to measure Sweden, yes. Similarly applicable here.

Sweden was under threat of invasion and still helped the allies, what's Microsoft's excuse?

Apples and Oranges comparison here. This isn't a world war we are talking about.

Isn’t it though? When AI is used against the people and fake media is used to cover up war crimes, what’s not to stop there? When your feeds have been polluted with outside foreign influencers that you explode from within, what’s not to stop there? It’s war alright. Just not the kind of war Spielberg thinks would make a great film.

Have you seen pictures of Gaza? Scenes like this haven't been seen since WW2, maybe the Korean War or the Cambodia campaign.

Haven't been seen since WW2 or the 1970s? Are you just ignoring Sudan right now, or a million other armed conflicts?

I’m aware there’s a genocide in sudan but i’m not aware of entire cities being leveled in this fashion. there have been other conflicts where more people have died, but rarely is there a conflict where the entire world government apparatus appears to stand against 2 million people mostly women and children in contradiction to the democratic will of almost the entire world

it takes a lot of money and firepower to do what they’ve done to gaza. it is an affectation of enormous wealth and callousness against a nearly defenseless population

i will say though that sri lankans said that some of these tactics were pioneered against the tamil tigers in more recent history

They like money.

"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department, says Werner Von Braun."

Are you seriously comparing "general purpose compute" to ballistic missiles?

If the 'general purpose compute' is used by rocket, then yes?

So you would be fine with sharing criminal liability if you, for example, bought a car from someone and later that person committed a crime?

I wouldn't, that's why there are rules everyone adheres to.

By the same token, if Microsoft provides "general purpose compute" to a state that does something harmful, Microsoft should not be expected to share moral culpability for that harm. That's why I objected in the first place. It is not as if they provided something exclusively or primarily used for causing harm.

MS said they wouldn't, that's where the conflict arises. The fund doesn't want to be involved with any shady stuff and is trying their "humanity clause".

A general purpose technology that happens to be used for harm does not make the technology harmful, only its wielder.

Yes, that's the point. Munitions are not general purpose, so equating compute to munitions is unjustly ascribing moral weight to the compute.

Rockets are general purpose though. They can bring up civilian satellites or fall down as weapons.

Palantir is a data and ml platform. They don’t create point solutions for people. The solutions created are owned by the people contracting Palantir. If you hate on Palantir - you can hate on pretty much all industry in the west - oil and gas for supplying fuel, farmers for supplying food, consulting companies for consulting for the government, general population for paying taxes, etc.

This entire thing is just political showboating. I mean feel free to not buy food and fuel.

If these companies were breaking laws against big people (facilitating investment fraud, payment processing for terrorists) nobody would consider these methods of deflection for a second - it's only because the laws are being broken to hurt small people that the concept of aiding and abetting or acting as a willing accomplice is considered not relevant.

(Human rights are common law.)

The parent poster's example was more apt with US Steel.

Palantir on the otherhand is a well known defense contractor and its stock price is arguably propped up by the US Department of Defen -- I mean WAR -- having an infinite budget.

Don't be licking Thiel and Karp's boots.

I’m not. But I don’t have qualms about working at Palantir or any US defense contractor. If the work is legally allowed then I’m not going to second guess my source of income.

> I don’t think punishing the steel maker for a gun maker who sold it to a distributor who then sold it to a nut job should be liable for the nut job

Nobody thinks that, because it's ridiculous. This is a false equivalence. Isolated crimes are inevitable, and impossible to solve with any single thing.

But when it comes to genocide, you can stop or at least limit it by going after the suppliers who equip the group with the tools to carry it out. Microsoft is one such supplier, and they know exactly what they're doing. If our government isn't going to do something, an activist shareholder is a decent alternative.