The biggest benefit of pasteurization is extending the shelf life, which is important in an industrialized economy. Dying due to consuming raw milk was not a problem, at least until milk had to be shipped long distances.

Not just distance, but time. If you try to keep milk around for any amount of time after milking the cow, you run risks like Bird Flus and TB and other disease contaminants.

Which is also why in the other direction cheese was invented for time stability of milk.

this is a shockingly false thing to see someone say, I have family members who have died due to drinking milk from their own farm

pasteurization and vaccination are the crown jewels of modern civilization

I'm sorry for your loss. I have people in family who died in a car accident. I still drive a car.

And have you removed the seat belts and disabled the airbags in it?

Really depends on the country and the access to clean processes between milking a cow and your glass tho.

Kind of related I was really shocked when I saw people eating raw pork mince in Germany when I lived there. My first reaction is that I would never do that based on my upbringing but if natural selection is a thing it's working fine for them I guess.

But it's not dependent on the country in this case, it's the US we're talking about. And I absolutely would not trust the US dairy industry to be able to properly produce and sell pathogen-free milk without pasteurization. And I would assume they don't want the liability of selling it anyway, most people and companies avoid selling things that can kill you if possible.

It's funny, a tradition in European countries is to eat raw minced beef, but offer them a medium rare steak and they wince at the 'blood'.

Believing that one should be able to consume raw milk is not anti-science. Yes pasteurization kills bacteria that can be present in milk which can cause serious harm and also it kills bacteria that can be positive and people should have the right to choose to consume it and sell it with proper disclosures.

I never understood the fear of raw milk. The best cheese are made with raw milk. I don't understand how it can't be safe when both the cow and the milk are tested for disease and bad germs.

Isn't cheese making just an old process of preserving milk for later consumption, which removes moisture and thus the environment for harmful bacteria?

And also encouraging controlled, beneficial bacteria that out-compete harmful bacteria.

Then why is it illegal to make raw milk cheese?

I have no idea what the rules are, but I'm sure you can make whatever you want. If something is illegal, it's is probably illegal to _sell_ it, which i think is reasonable. I wouldn't trust just anyone to sell me raw milk cheese, and would want them to follow food safely regulations when doing so, which maybe are not compatible with the process of making raw milk cheese.

By that logic I don't understand why you don't just drink raw sewage instead of waiting for it to be processed and made safe.

The act of making cheese is processing the raw milk. Fun fact Pasteurized milk was also once raw.

Same with meat but basically no one advocates eating raw chicken.

Why am I explaining that things change from a raw to a processed state and becomes safe to consume...

This is a false equivalence. And if the milk and the cow is tested for pathogens, what is the problem?

I really wish I could buy raw milk for hobby cheesemaking. I'm in Canada where the laws are really restrictive.

Aren't cheeses made from raw milk cultured, and usually cure for a long enough time that bacteria does not survive?

Many people just boil raw milk themselves and don't have issues?

Is this... a joke?

Buying raw milk doesn't mean people will consume it?

Sure. But boiling it makes it… not raw.

Best thread all day :)

I know, but the topic at hand is about buying raw milk? From the article

> Powerful anti-vaccine advocates and people selling potentially harmful goods such as raw milk are profiting from the push to write anti-science policies into law across the U.S.

> I know, but the topic at hand is about buying raw milk?

But we don't regulate milk for the people who boil it.

We regulate it because of the ones who don't.

We do though. It is illegal to buy raw milk in some jurisdictions regardless if you boil it after purchasing.

Because some people won't boil it, and that has serious public health impacts. Right?

Same reason we have airport security even if I personally don't want to hijack a plane.

Plenty of things have serious health impacts and we don't mandate it. To go after something as niche as raw milk is weird in my view. Heart disease leads to quite a few deaths and we don't ban McDonalds.

If the fear is actually the drinking of raw milk then they should ban that, not the buying/selling of it.

> Plenty of things have serious health impacts and we don't mandate it.

There are very few things with serious health impacts that are completely unregulated. The closest we get is probably guns.

> To go after something as niche as raw milk is weird in my view.

It wasn't niche when we regulated it. It's niche now because we did.

> Heart disease leads to quite a few deaths and we don't ban McDonalds.

We take plenty of regulatory steps to reduce heart disease. McDonalds is required, for example, to provide nutrition facts. The burger meat gets USDA inspected. The restaurants get health inspections. (And we do try to do more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugary_drinks_portion_cap_rule)

> There are very few things with serious health impacts that are completely unregulated. The closest we get is probably guns.

Guns are more regulated than most everything else? Background checks, age verification, licensed dealers, rules on transporting and storing guns, etc.

> It wasn't niche when we regulated it. It's niche now because we did.

Just not true. It is niche in places where it is not regulated as well and some portion of those who buy raw milk pasteurize it themselves so we don't even know how many people drink raw milk.

> We take plenty of regulatory steps to reduce heart disease. McDonalds is required, for example, to provide nutrition facts.

Almost nobody reads that at a McDonalds...

> The burger meat gets USDA inspected. The restaurants get health inspections. (And we do try to do more.

And yet you can go to a McDonalds and die from a heart attack. Many places do not let you take that risk with raw milk.

Despite all these regulations you mentioned, McDonalds has more stores than ever before. With your reasoning that should be turning McDonalds into a niche place.

This is ridiculous. "Well there is something that people at home could do to make this safe so its no biggie to sell it even though we know that virtually nobody will do that thing."

Virtually nobody buys raw milk in the first place. That is what is so ridiculous.

Hey man I don't know what they put in that factory heat. I only trust heat from my stove.