News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by al_borland on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @12:32AM (#45652491)
> Become self sustaining through investments so it can live for 1000 years.

I always wondered why more companies or organizations didn’t do this. Pile up money during the good years to allow themselves to not need continued outside income to keep going, so they can do what is right instead of compromising their vision for the sake of hitting quarterly earnings. That isn’t to say they can’t keep making money, but do it for the right reasons that will keep the core business around for the long run.

Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by Okx on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @12:42AM (#45652540)
Unfortunately, Wikipedia doesn't seem interested in this. Their revenue is more than enough be able to invest and sustain the site forever, but they just increase expenses on non-core outgoings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:CANCER
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by pastage on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @03:36PM (#45660613)
You pay for Wikipedia because you want it to prosper. The political part of Wikipedia is vital to make it succeed. Even though everyone uses Wikipedia not everyone knows why it succeeded and why it is important.

The fluff is important to have a engaged super users. It is also important to get acceptance in certain circles.

Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by fruitworks on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @05:19PM (#45661857)
what circles? I would like to have greater transparency into what this cabal of superusers doing, how are they recieving the cash flows, etc.

It just seems like every wiki results in defensive mod cabals

Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by Levitz on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @07:28PM (#45663081)
Can you make the case as to why we should want a political, super user based version of Wikipedia to prosper?
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by NewsaHackO on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @03:39PM (#45660642)
Am I misssing something or is Wikipedia net positive 200M? If this is true, that's eye opening. Weird given how much they beg for money on every article.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by andersa on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @04:22PM (#45661190)
The amount of money moving through Wikipedia is absolutely mind blowing, and next to none of that is even being used to sustain the site. Hope those still donating to it feel smart about what they're supporting...
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by SchemaLoad on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @08:56PM (#45663752)
Still a drop in the bucket compared to the money going in to AI companies off the back of wikipedia data.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by insane_dreamer on Wednesday October 22, 2025 @11:03AM (#45670228)
Because that's how you build up a foundation that will be self-sustaining when the donations run out.

It's not a bad strategy. I've looked at Wikimedia's financial statements and have no problem giving a small monthly amount to them considering how much value I get from the site.

I certainly prefer my money going to them than to Zuckerberg or Altman or MSFT shareholders.

Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by int_19h on Wednesday October 22, 2025 @11:27PM (#45677867)
The real question, given how handy Wikipedia is as training data, is why it's your money going to them, and not Zuckerberg's or Altman's or Nadella's.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by dghlsakjg on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @05:39PM (#45662058)
They have that much in assets. I'm not sure what that actually looks like in terms of cash vs. non-liquid assets vs. assets with strings attached.

If you look at revenue vs spend they are net positive by about 7mm last year.

Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by cg5280 on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @05:58PM (#45662250)
You aren't missing anything. This has been an increasingly popular criticism of Wikipedia. They are doing just fine financially.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by xeonmc on Wednesday October 22, 2025 @02:34AM (#45665568)
The Mozilla playbook, I see.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by mrweasel on Wednesday October 22, 2025 @03:19AM (#45665828)
Mozilla doesn't have any money... do they?
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by lurk2 on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @08:17PM (#45663494)
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by nickff on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @01:31AM (#45652760)
If a company retains earnings, it has to pay taxes on them (as profits), but the money is still at risk (from a shareholder’s point of view) if something bad happens to the company (lawsuit or market problem). Shareholders usually want to receive whatever money the company has saved up, to safeguard it from being lost for no reason, and so that they (the shareholder) can put it to use elsewhere. This would change if the government stopped taxing retained earnings.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by selfhoster11 on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @08:56AM (#45655168)
That doesn't fully explain why this doesn't happen with non-profits.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by olalonde on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @04:43PM (#45661446)
Many nonprofits do this — it’s called an endowment fund.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by ta1243 on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @03:33PM (#45660578)
> This would change if the government stopped taxing retained earnings.

No it wouldn't, because

> the money is still at risk (from a shareholder’s point of view) if something bad happens to the company (lawsuit or market problem).

Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by warkdarrior on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @06:52PM (#45662746)
It would definitely change, because a shareholder could then take a loan against the non-taxed retained earnings they are owed. So then it comes down to whether the tax is higher or lower than the loan interest (adjust for the risk you mentioned).
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by lottin on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @06:03PM (#45662308)
Retained earnings are not taxed per se. A company pays taxes on profits. Whether the profits are distributed to shareholders or retained makes no difference whatsoever as far as taxes are concerned.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by nickff on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @06:46PM (#45662691)
They are taxed; they are taxed because they are a subset of profits, which is a taxed category. They are not taxed more than other profits, but that doesn’t mean they’re ’not taxed’.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by blibble on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @08:28PM (#45663571)
they are not

retained earnings by definition are the accumulation of net incomes, and net income by definition is post tax

what went into the produce the retained earnings (profit) has been taxed

but the retained earnings themselves are not subject to additional taxation (with a few exceptions)

Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by skeeter2020 on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @12:39AM (#45652522)
It takes a pretty altruistic leadership team to plan for 1000 years; even the multi-billionaire tech bros only plan to live for ~200 or so.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by al_borland on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @12:57AM (#45652604)
“A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.”

I recently visited Scotland and on a visit to a distillery they mentioned they bought land in the US to grow trees that will make their barrels one day. The trees take over 100 years to grow (if I remember correctly). How is it we can invest ~200 years into a glass of scotch, yet we aren’t willing to take the same care and long term thinking in most other areas.

Even without being around for 1,000 years, I’d think doing this would de-stress and de-risk. Somewhere along way it became a bad thing to have a good, stable, long-lasting business. The only thing that seems to matter now is growth, even if they means instability, stress, excessive risk, and a short stay.

Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by redwall_hp on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @01:44AM (#45652833)
Craftsmen care about what they make, pursuing excellence even if it may take generations. Businessmen care about robbing you now in the most efficient way.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by Fade_Dance on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @08:19AM (#45654906)
There is also an element of tradition with scotch, which is something that can survive even the occasional craftsman who may not care as much about what they do, as long as they respect the traditions.

Humans don't live that long, and there's a constant onslaught of fleeting fancies, especially in business (Wikipedia foundation should buy some crypto for it's treasury!)

Tradition is simply brand value to be monetized for most businessmen (to add to your criticism). Just look at scotch whisky and multinational conglomerate acquisitions. They would never plant trees in America, they simply order giant vats used for the strongest PX Sherry to get maximum flavor per euro for their blending process.

Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by bruderFrancis on Wednesday October 22, 2025 @01:11AM (#45665097)
Some ancient family dynasty Scotch distillery perilous existential vulnerabilities:

[] Indifferent, spoiled rotten progeny seeking maximum return upon inheritance, selling distillery to Seagram's for an immediate gratification windfall fortune.

[] John Cooper VII, the last barrel maker, skill lost at retirement, or Master Cooper VIIth lost savings to Mister Market, or an expensive clandestine affair, extorts 16X per barrel.

[] Seagram's hires brilliant Bill Burr(Breaking Bad car wash business) to pose as EPA agent, threatening federal lawsuit for illegal violation of dumping distillery toxic runoff for past centuries, and/or white oak barrels cause cancer and the distillery has killed victims for hundreds of years.

[] A society grows fallow when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in, while the president's daughter threatens to enforce federal white oak forest's toxic(false, but that's ok!) leaching prosecution if landowners do not immediately purchase a fortune of President altCoin.

In this painfully craven hostile world, Benedictine liqueur would seem to be more durable spirit than any Scotch.

Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by vovavili on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @05:01PM (#45661662)
That's a bold and daring thing to say on a startup accelerator and venture capital forum, must I say.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by tentahedronic on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @09:47PM (#45664059)
While that is technically true I have always thought hn as a mere place to find interesting content. Of course many of us, me included, dream about finding someone who pays millions for our code. But the attitude towards businessmen is generally hostile here and for a good reason. They can't make things and they aren't even interested in making things, and overall they are more often than not just lame and boring. They are interested in making money, ripping people off, being leeches, extracting every possible penny they just can. Weird geeks are what the hacker culture is all about and politically correct c-suite suckers can go pound sand.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by warkdarrior on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @06:54PM (#45662761)
Efficient robbery is a craft too, just not one you (or most people) appreciate.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by smcin on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @08:21PM (#45663525)
Now there you Ninja Academy guys go again...
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by int_19h on Wednesday October 22, 2025 @11:29PM (#45677877)
We do appreciate it! There's even posters for the most famous players, posted in prominent public places free of charge.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by parineum on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @09:42PM (#45664034)
Craftsman are businessesman.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by hunterpayne on Wednesday October 22, 2025 @04:09AM (#45666140)
Scotch is aged in previously used Bourbon barrels from the US. Those Bourbon barrels are harvested from local forests (in Kentucky) which are very large and healthy. The probable reason they purchased land was for an investment or perhaps an alternate income stream or even for some sort of government tax break or credit. They may have told you it was to make barrels but it isn't at all likely that will ever happen. Good story though...
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by robotnikman on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @03:07PM (#45660198)
I've always wondered if increasing everybody's lifespan would result in more people caring more about the long term future. Our lives are so short in the grand scheme of things that we never bother to really thing about the grand scheme of things.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by griffzhowl on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @03:21PM (#45660391)
I've heard that in the Tibetan tradiation where they ardently belive in reincarnation that thinking about the consequences of your actions for the next thousand years isn't unusual
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by phs318u on Wednesday October 22, 2025 @10:31PM (#45677538)
Wake me up (from my cryo-sleep) when even a single one of the longevity tech-bros gets to 150.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by raw_anon_1111 on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @03:48PM (#45660768)
Because unless the company is temporarily making losses because of temporarily macroeconomic conditions, what’s the point?

Having a war chest wasn’t going to help any of the retail companies, the technology companies who couldn’t pivot, etc. There is no reason for a company to live forever.

Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by Terr_ on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @05:16PM (#45661830)
> Pile up money during the good years to allow themselves to not need continued outside income to keep going, so they can do what is right instead of compromising their vision for the sake of hitting quarterly earnings.

Typically, individuals want to pile up money so that they don't need outside income to keep going, and the shareholders of a "quarterly earnings" company will squeeze the entity to get it for themselves in the form of dividends or higher share-price.

Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by Panzer04 on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @06:27PM (#45662529)
Money locked up in companies is managed at the leisure of its management, regardless of how good that might be for anyone else (ie. the shareholding owners). Money sitting there doing nothing is a poor use of it, so most companies are encouraged to run with only enough working capital to keep operations going.

It sounds weird, but this is better for shareholders and the economy (and companies can raise capital as needed down the line) than having all companies hold 3x the cash on the balance sheet.

The argument would be different for a foundation by wikipedia, albeit you still have problems between what the wikipedia management might want (high wages, little accountability) and everyone else.

Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by warkdarrior on Tuesday October 21, 2025 @06:48PM (#45662704)
> Money locked up in companies is managed at the leisure of its management, regardless of how good that might be for [...] the shareholding owners

But the management is aware that the shareholders can apply (direct or indirect) pressure for the money to be used in certain ways. Ultimately the shareholder can sue the management if they think the money is misused.

Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by Panzer04 on Wednesday October 22, 2025 @10:28PM (#45677518)
In the ideal case, but shareholders are distributed and often it's nontrivial to get enough involved to justify the effort and expense.
Re:Wikipedia says traffic is falling due to AI search summar... by tsimionescu on Wednesday October 22, 2025 @03:32AM (#45665898)
I think some NGOs and privately owned companies actually do this. But most companies exist to increase the wealth of their shareholders, so if they don't consistently grow, they serve no purpose. If NVIDIA kept its exact current revenue and profits for the next two years, their CEO would be fired and their share price would be in the gutter.