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Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by choeger on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:04PM (#45454830)
So a question to the experts here: What's the catch?
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by piker on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:10PM (#45454906)
gotta be cancer
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by JumpCrisscross on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:18PM (#45454995)
> gotta be cancer

"Notably, none of the cell transplant recipients developed tumors (n = 16)."

https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(25)00571-9?_re...

Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by PUSH_AX on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:17PM (#45454990)
When you extend human lifespan long enough, cancer becomes close to inevitable anyway.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by inglor_cz on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:31PM (#45455161)
Or maybe not. Some species are very resistant to cancer. For example, bats basically never get it, even though they live up to 40 years.

Would they get cancer if they lived for 400 years? Maybe not either. Their immune systems are very good, better than ours.

(We humans don't really want to acknowledge that some other animals may have better immune systems, or any other systems, at their disposal.)

On the other end of the scale, mice die of cancer while not even three years old, because their immune systems are really bad at fighting cancer cells.

Cancer in mammals seems to be a function of failing immune systems rather than raw age in numbers. In some species, including us humans, weakening of the immune system goes hand in hand with aging. But in others it does not.

Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by ACCount37 on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:13PM (#45455641)
Peto's paradox - and the existence of whales in particular.

If cancer really is an inevitability, then whales, who have both livespan limits longer than that of humans, and enormous bodies with a staggering amount of living cells, would be full of cancer. They aren't.

Clearly, humans must have better innate cancer suppression than mice, and whales must have better innate cancer suppression than humans.

There are some hints that this may come down to programmed cell death and DNA repair mechanisms (i.e. the p53 pathway) more than the immune system tweaks - with immune response being the "last resort" of cancer suppression. But we also don't know enough about the immune system to be able to examine it the same detail we can examine the DNA repair pathways.

Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by andrewl on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:08PM (#45455584)
See Peto's Paradox for discussion of different cancer rates among species:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peto's_paradox

Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by echelon on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:52PM (#45455404)
The correct way to phrase this is that humans have a level of cancer that does not greatly impede the fitness of the species in having offspring. We didn't hill climb into other evolutionary protective mechanisms because they either were not discovered or did not convey appropriate fitness benefits.

Our evolutionary biology doesn't "care" if we get cancer. Just that we have healthy children and can rear them for one or two generations. That was a (locally) optimal algorithm.

We have plenty of in-built checks and protections in our molecular biology, and they are sufficient to expand the species.

[dead]
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by slater on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:29PM (#45455820)
thanks for the a.i. slop?
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by tomhowsalterego on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:15PM (#45454957)
Personally I’m holding out for something a bit more interesting like some even more macabre Picture of Dorian Gray type thing.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by mullingitover on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:46PM (#45455344)
If a subset of the population stops dying, and that group grows, you've just invented cancer again on a different scale.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by fragmede on Friday October 03, 2025 @01:41PM (#45465558)
Okay Agent Smith.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by bitwize on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:35PM (#45455886)
So the best way to get induced pluripotent stem cells is through the Yamanaka factors, which are proteins coded for by genes which are not expressed in mature cells. Using all four Yamanaka factors is a one-way ticket to tumor town. But, as it turns out, using three of the four still gets you IPSCs without the elevated cancer risk.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by paulpauper on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:21PM (#45455044)
Monkeys are not humans, anti-aging is imprecise and does not necessarily translate into longer life expectancies for people, and promises of extending life have always fallen short of hype, and odds are this will too.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by JumpCrisscross on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:25PM (#45455092)
> Monkeys are not humans

The implanted stem cells, however, were human. (The fact that that the treatments did not cause "fever or substantial changes in immune cell levels (lymphocytes, neutrophils, and monocytes), which are commonly monitored for xenograft-related immune responses," is itself surprising.)

> promises of extending life have always fallen short of hype, and odds are this will too

Correct, though I'd say because this is early-stage medical research. Not because it's targeting longevity. I'd be similarly sceptical of an N = 16 early-stage drug trial for the flu.

Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by SubiculumCode on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:33PM (#45455192)
16 primates is not small when it comes to primate studies. In any case, knowing how expensive and rare primate research is to conduct, I doubt this is the first animal model used on this approach.

In terms of replicatability, it is also not always the sample size, it is the effect size. Small samples do affect ability to generalize, but the point is that sample size isn't everything.

Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by JumpCrisscross on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:36PM (#45455236)
> its the effect size

Which effect size do you find lacking?

Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by SubiculumCode on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:37PM (#45455255)
I was responding to the idea that listing a small sample size automatically means its shit science.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by JumpCrisscross on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:40PM (#45455281)
Oh, absolutely correct. Small study doesn't mean shit science. It just means there is plenty of room for randomness and hidden variables to create havoc on the way to a treatment.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by SubiculumCode on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:29PM (#45455136)
But they sure ain't mice, either. This is a LOT closer than results in mice.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by jasondigitized on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:32PM (#45455172)
Is there another, better animal that is used in late stage testing for other drugs you are aware of?
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by SubiculumCode on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:22PM (#45455062)
Examine your assumptions. There is no inherent reason that there has to be a catch. We are all from a long line of cellular reproduction that has lasted billions of years. There is no inherent reasons why cellular mechanisms can't keep maintaining/replacing a collection of those cell lineages...our relatively short lifespans are probably the products of evolutionary fitness functions acting on more fruitful strategies for reproductive success than staying off aging.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by jl6 on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:46PM (#45455350)
When the upside is extraordinary, it’s very reasonable to expect some downside, just based on experience of, like, everything ever.

As well as the undeniable benefit to individuals, a cure for aging would unleash a whole new bunch of problems that have been kept in check through the mechanism of people dying off regularly. A society of immortals could be quite alien to us.

Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by somesortofthing on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:03PM (#45455535)
Biology is one of very few areas of science where you do just find free lunches sometimes. Human bodies are adapted to environments with harsh constraints about injuries, pathogens, temperature, energy usage, etc. The only catch to counteracting those adaptations is that it makes you worse at being a hunter-gatherer.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by JumpCrisscross on Thursday October 02, 2025 @06:53PM (#45456541)
> Biology is one of very few areas of science where you do just find free lunches sometimes

Good example is vitamin supplementation. There isn't a downside. It's just a fuck-up we can't synthesise vitamin C. (There may be path-dependent benefits, e.g. our jaw muscles getting smaller thereby permitting a larger brain. But we don't need to be vitamin C restricted anymore.)

Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by throwuxiytayq on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:10PM (#45455600)
Same to be said about the solution for hunger, pain, sadness, madness. I guess we better stay where are just in case.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by sebastialonso on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:52PM (#45455400)
Catch is perhaps a strong word. Trade-off would be more accurate.

Every action in the known universe (and surely in some unknown ones too) results in a trade-off. This is maybe the only precept on software architecture that doesn't "depends" on anything and is closer to natural law.

Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by ACCount37 on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:59PM (#45455490)
The only tradeoff that's truly enforced is "you need to spend energy to get anything done".

Human body isn't exactly bottlenecked by energy availability. Calories are getting cheaper and cheaper, with obesity rates as a testament to that.

Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by jdiff on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:04PM (#45455538)
Sure, but there's usually plenty of other tradeoffs in any system of notable complexity. This is certainly a system of notable complexity. We may find that there is mental degradation that's not covered by this. We may discover that cancer is practically unavoidable if you live long enough, and the problem compounds even further with age than we can anticipate now. There's never just one lever being pulled in isolation.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by ACCount37 on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:40PM (#45455927)
I mean, if you gain +20 years of longevity to most of the body, but not to mind? That's still 20 extra years of lifespan if you're lucky. And if you aren't, it's still better health in general, until your mind goes.

There are old people who remain lucid and active well into their nineties, not getting dementia or cancer - through some combination of good luck, good genes and good lifestyle choices. They live a good life - until a stroke cripples them, or the heart fails them, or a very mundane illness like flu puts them in bed and they never quite recover from it. If that couldn't happen to them, how many more good years would that buy them?

Any treatment that addresses the aging-associated systematic decline in bodily functions should be extremely desirable. Even if it wouldn't help everyone live longer, it would help a lot of people live better lives nonetheless.

Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by neom on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:41PM (#45455946)
My personal thought on the "catch" (of "curing death") is that we seriously don't understand how removing or slowing evolution in the equation at the population level plays out over time. Evolution seems to be a fairly robust and complex subsystem of reality.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by lukan on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:31PM (#45455167)
My assumption is, there are lots of rich people who want to live forever and lots of people who want their wealth and breakthroughs with anti ageing were quite rare or rather non existent as far as I know.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by SubiculumCode on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:46PM (#45455341)
My assumption is that I'd feel more certain if this science had been conducted in the U.S. or Europe, but your assumptions is a little too conspiratorial for me.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by lukan on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:37PM (#45455908)
How many breakthroughs have there been so far in anti-aging research that turned out to be real?
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by Atomic_Torrfisk on Friday October 03, 2025 @07:27AM (#45461626)
> There is no inherent reason that there has to be a catch

We are consistently sold ideas that do not meet expectation, the catch is expected.

"Hey everyone we discovered X breakthrough!" It only has Y constrains or consequences which make it not so useful, or at worst, harmful later.

Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by onionisafruit on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:40PM (#45455279)
It delays that sweet eternal rest
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by SirFatty on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:47PM (#45455354)
It's really adrenochrome.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by chrisco255 on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:52PM (#45455415)
The title is overblown. This just improves certain biomarkers that are associated with aging. This might improve healthspan but there is no indication that these monkeys will live any longer than the natural range.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by nikkwong on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:33PM (#45455867)
That might not be true, if you look at the paper:

"The super stem cells prevent age-related bone loss while rejuvenating over 50% of the 61 tissues analyzed." (including the brain).

What do people die of when they die of 'old age'? There's the 3 pillars: cancer, cardiovascular, neurodegenerative. These are often (but not always) metabolic diseases; i.e. cardiovascular death often arises from kidney insufficiency. If you can regenerate the liver, kidney, etc. indefinitely, a large vector of metabolic disease is probably diminished or disappears.

In the paper, monkeys restored brain volume. They reduced the levels of senescent cells to youthful levels. They increased bone mass. This reduces or eliminates many of the threats that inflict casualties among the centenarian population.

Sure, something else could come up that the monkeys start dying from instead. But, given the way humans and monkeys die of old age—by reducing or eliminating all known threats—it's hard to see how this wouldn't extend lifespan.

Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by chrisco255 on Thursday October 02, 2025 @06:08PM (#45456204)
This paper doesn't prove that it extends lifespan. So to speculate on that extraordinary claim without extraordinary evidence to back it up is useless. It would be far easier to prove this out on a species with a much smaller lifespan like mice, not to mention cheaper, but so far we're unable to make a mouse live longer than 5 years.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by nikkwong on Thursday October 02, 2025 @08:04PM (#45457108)
Yes, I'm certainly speculating. It certainly seems that this could be a path to extending lifespan. I think the claim is less than "extraordinary" though. Many teams are working to figure out how to extend lifespan in many species—it seems likely that there will be meaningful progress in the coming years or decades.
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by ikrenji on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:40PM (#45455929)
I skimmed the article looking for a lifespan plot. Didn't see one. Instead it is replaced by a "proprietary multidimensional primate aging clock measurement". Take it as you will...
Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by disambiguation on Thursday October 02, 2025 @06:34PM (#45456414)
Aging is related to shortening of telomeres - the speculated evolutionary advantage is that it's a mechanism to protect against cancer.

Unclear from the study what the stem cells are doing to address either problem.

Re:Anti-Aging Breakthrough: Stem Cells Reverse Signs of Agin... by pas on Thursday October 02, 2025 @07:11PM (#45456675)
that's one small part of aging