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Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by LorenPechtel on Sunday September 14, 2025 @07:35PM (#45244430)
Age gate means identification of the individual. Of course big tech loves that.

You can have age gating or you can have privacy. Same as you can have porn filtering or you can have privacy.

Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by zelse on Sunday September 14, 2025 @08:14PM (#45244679)
In practice, 100%. In theory we could likely design "good enough" anonymous systems that work like buying alcohol or tobacco in most countries (buy a scratch token in cash at a corner store after showing ID, picked at random from a box of them - contains a number, possession of which is theoretical proof that you had your ID verified at purchase)...but of course, the real purpose of age-gating is exerting a chilling effect, so we'll never hear about privacy-preserving methods.

(NB: I am firmly opposed to any of this. The solution for parents concerned about their kids is parenting and parental controls, not giving authoritarians of all stripes the means to snoop and ban whatever they decide is obscene or troubling.)

Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by dh2022 on Sunday September 14, 2025 @11:39PM (#45245874)
This approach could create a black market where,say, high school seniors would buy these tokens and resell to high school sophomores/juniors.
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by readams on Sunday September 14, 2025 @08:21PM (#45244737)
Big tech has generally not loved this because they know that adding friction like id checks massively reduces attach rates. This is watered down enough that it's likely seen as a lesser evil.
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by BoredPositron on Sunday September 14, 2025 @09:18PM (#45245077)
A new account on Facebook, Instagram or Google/YouTube will usually instantly get restricted and triggers either ID or Phone verification anyways.
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by nicce on Sunday September 14, 2025 @08:57PM (#45244948)
Porn sites have been there almost 20 years. Why it is problem right now? Is there extensive recent research about it? Or now we just have the capability?
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by nick__m on Sunday September 14, 2025 @09:22PM (#45245100)
I remember pop-up porn adds started to appears around 1995 or so and 1995 is 30 years away...
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by privatelypublic on Sunday September 14, 2025 @10:02PM (#45245309)
I ember them showing up and then being limited to super shady sites PDQ.

Which makes sense- since exposing minors to pornography was a crime, and got even more illegal somewhere in that time frame, along with the web becoming "professional" (whitehouse top level domain mixup stories anyone?), the honest pornography sites all started self-regulating and asking if somebody is an adult before anything naughty gets shown.

Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by betaby on Sunday September 14, 2025 @11:28PM (#45245810)
> Why it is problem right now?

Push from the different generation? Late boomers got very puritan with age, also see themselves as more moral, again with age.

Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by burnt-resistor on Sunday September 14, 2025 @11:44PM (#45245902)
Nope, not here. Perhaps you live in some totalitarian shithole where you lack privacy or haven't figured out how VPNs work.
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by LorenPechtel on Tuesday September 16, 2025 @04:20PM (#45267441)
It's a "problem" because we are becoming a theocracy.

There's no reasonable demonstration of harm and a very strong correlation between availability of pornography and a big reduction in sex crimes. The purported harms are due to blocking reasonable sex education, leaving teens with the equivalent of Hollywood being the only model of sex they see. The original study that was created to show the harms concluded they couldn't find any to anyone, even minors.

Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by jart on Sunday September 14, 2025 @08:58PM (#45244957)
No one ever explains why it's so important that everyone always conceal their identity on the web, as though it were some global red light district. The most successful tech platforms all succeeded by getting people to be trusting enough to say who they are, like Twitter, Facebook, etc. It's worth billions of dollars to create any online space that isn't anonymous.
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by filchermcurr on Sunday September 14, 2025 @09:26PM (#45245124)
It's important to conceal your identity because the internet is forever. Your comments, opinions, beliefs, embarrassing moments... all recorded (essentially) for life. This happens through administration changes, different jobs, life changes, belief shifts, different friends and partners, etc. Without anonymity, anybody can comb through your entire history to make any point they want. To justify any accusation about you they want using 'evidence' from years past. To stalk or harass. To fire you for daring have an opinion about something. Depending on your government, to arrest you for what you've said in the past.

A huge issue with the modern web is that everything is seen as a profit motive. I don't care how many billions of dollars tracking everything we do and tying it to our person is worth. I don't want it.

Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by burnt-resistor on Sunday September 14, 2025 @11:47PM (#45245912)
And hostile regimes can surveil, harvest, and buy up data to murder their opponents. "It can't happen here" is always naive "logic".
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by jart on Sunday September 14, 2025 @09:37PM (#45245180)
That's a good thing since it means we have the opportunity to be remembered for eternity. Information is permanent. Also don't think that just because the system doesn't reveal who you are to other users today that your identity and life activities won't be decloaked later on should culture or policies ever change. If you're open, trusting, and use your real name today, you'll at least get the benefits and glory of eternal fame while you're alive.
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by burnt-resistor on Sunday September 14, 2025 @11:48PM (#45245917)
Except the right to be forgotten and not doxxed.
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by serf on Sunday September 14, 2025 @09:19PM (#45245083)
OK.

Here's an easy explanation.

Someone you don't like somehow gets voted into power and begins trying to enact changes towards a social group you belong to.

Building anonymous systems is one way to avoid Bad Actor X from having Big List Y, leading to Atrocity Z.

Having a really successful social network isn't a goal post, it's just a result.

Great -- it made a zillion dollars, meanwhile we've built the biggest leakiest information trove on individuals, for individuals to be exploited, ever imagined.

Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by jart on Sunday September 14, 2025 @09:27PM (#45245127)
Already happened with USG. You know who doesn't discriminate against my group? Big tech companies. If they can step up and take on more responsibility for identity verification in our society, then my social group will be less oppressed. The California Republic must lead the way.
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by heavyset_go on Sunday September 14, 2025 @10:45PM (#45245566)
> You know who doesn't discriminate against my group? Big tech companies.

Yes, they just give megaphones to, and make bank on, the propagandists that are responsible for the current moral panic that's resulted in the US government discriminating against LGBT people.

These are the same companies that facilitated propaganda that led to hate and violence like this[1]. A deeper look with plentiful citations is here[2] from the Harvard Systemic Justice Project.

To give you an example that happened here in the US, a friend recently moved back to the city because his neighbors felt emboldened to constantly call him slurs on Facebook when they disagreed with him. He couldn't use local Facebook groups without bigots following him around and calling him slurs. They felt emboldened after this[3], knowing Facebook would do nothing about it. Discriminatory harassment over Facebook after their policy shift drove him from his own home. Facebook's policies allowed a community to successfully rid itself of a minority it didn't want to see or hear.

[1] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/amnesty-report-finds-face...

[2] https://systemicjustice.org/article/facebook-and-genocide-ho...

[3] https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/meta-new-hate-spee...

Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by jart on Monday September 15, 2025 @01:21AM (#45246359)
The first amendment protects free speech. The people must have their say.
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by heavyset_go on Monday September 15, 2025 @02:12AM (#45246634)
We both know that the First Amendment binds the government and doesn't bind private entities.
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by jart on Monday September 15, 2025 @02:39AM (#45246776)
What do you want tech to do? Use agents to deploy an apparatchik to every man woman and child? Wouldn't that leave people like you out of a job? What would you do all day? Tech platforms should take no part in the social disagreements of the people. They should be neutral unbiased providers of digital space.
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by heavyset_go on Monday September 15, 2025 @04:57PM (#45254821)
Yes and yes, why shouldn't they?

I'll be just fine, I don't suck at the teat of tech companies like some do.

The real question is what will you do when they come for you? Note that writing code and posting on the internet will get you nowhere.

Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by jart on Monday September 15, 2025 @11:25PM (#45257724)
What's stopping you from doing that? They tried to come for my passport but missed. Our heroes in the civil service saw to that. Just got a new one in the mail today and I'm so happy.
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by 16bitvoid on Sunday September 14, 2025 @09:44PM (#45245208)
They may not themselves, but they'll happily sell your info or give it up to avoid losing money to someone who would.
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by _heimdall on Sunday September 14, 2025 @09:19PM (#45245084)
You may be combining or missing a few factors.

Tech platforms are valued at billions of dollars because they found ways of convincing their users to give up anonymity. That has nothing to do with whether the anonymity was important.

Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by corytheboyd on Sunday September 14, 2025 @09:42PM (#45245200)
> No one ever explains why it's so important that everyone always conceal their identity on the web.

I live next to idiots with gigabit and guns, that’s why.

Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by no_wizard on Sunday September 14, 2025 @09:17PM (#45245075)
Reddit stands out against this wave. I reckon that Reddit is worth at least a billion
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by ranger_danger on Sunday September 14, 2025 @09:12PM (#45245051)
The text of this bill would be satisfied by a website simply having a "Yes, I'm over 18" button on the front.
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by kristopolous on Sunday September 14, 2025 @09:52PM (#45245246)
My favorite is Montana where you have to provide more identification to view a naughty jpeg then buy a firearm.
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by doctorpangloss on Sunday September 14, 2025 @09:53PM (#45245251)
Google doesn’t need to identify you… you use Gmail.

And anyway, they created a library (https://blog.google/technology/safety-security/opening-up-ze...) to make age verification not useful for identification but still real.

So… I’m sure you meant fingerprinting but presumably porn sites already do that?

Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by fortran77 on Sunday September 14, 2025 @09:59PM (#45245302)
I think they love it to because it will be another barrier for a little small start up from entering the market. You'll need to spend so much on regulatory issues and compliance that only the biggest, established companies can have a business.
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by tzs on Sunday September 14, 2025 @10:31PM (#45245472)
The privacy implications for this bill for adults seem to be about the same as the privacy implications for the "Click if you are 18+" button on many websites.

If you are under 18 there is no checking to stop you from saying you are are 18+

The only people it seems might have their privacy slightly reduced are people under 18 who are using a computer or smartphone/tablet that had parental controls set up by presumably a parent or guardian before giving the minor access.

The bill requires that the parent be able to enter the minor's birthday or age in one place, and then provide a way that the age range (under 5, 5-10, 10-13, 13-16, 16-18, 18+) can be given to apps/sites if they ask for it.

Thus, if you are a minor using a device that was set up with parental controls and you try to use an app or site that is restricted, that app or site will find out your age range.

Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by recursivegirth on Monday September 15, 2025 @12:55PM (#45252041)
This is actually a level headed way to deal with it. Provide a way for the device to inform the website / app of their age status (it can be bucketed for increased privacy/compatibility with existing rating systems). Then legislate that it is on the website to inform the device of the type of content being served. Then the device/browser can be responsible for implementing the privacy controls (page blocking, notifications, overrides, etc.), and the parents are responsible for ensuring their children's devices are configured with their ages.
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by Eddy_Viscosity2 on Monday September 15, 2025 @07:55AM (#45248611)
Is there irony in the fact that Americans will pass privacy invading laws to protect kids from porn, but not gun laws to protect them from being shot at in school? How many kids die from porn exposure every year?
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by stogot on Monday September 15, 2025 @09:16AM (#45249312)
Gun laws stop school shootings? Where in the US does that work?
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by Eddy_Viscosity2 on Monday September 15, 2025 @10:40AM (#45250253)
The US has never tried this. For an example of efficacy we have to look at other wealthy western nations that have strict gun laws and see how many school shootings they have. The data overwhelmingly indicates this works.

As a counter-point, where in the US has any law stopped teenagers looking at naughty things on the internet?

Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by stogot on Monday September 15, 2025 @04:55PM (#45254803)
What kind of state or federal law do you propose, with the unlikelihood that the 2A won’t be repealed?
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by Eddy_Viscosity2 on Monday September 15, 2025 @06:17PM (#45255641)
Easy, just do the same thing as other western countries. If the 2A is an obstacle, then change it. The unlikelihood of and changing the 2A is the heart of the problem, not an constraint to be worked around. The question is why are gun rights sacrosanct, but other rights can taken away just by saying 'think of the children'.
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by heavyset_go on Monday September 15, 2025 @06:22PM (#45255691)
If you think the 2nd Amendment is bad now, just wait to you see what happens if we're unlucky enough to ever have a Constitutional Convention in our lifetime.
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by stogot on Wednesday September 17, 2025 @11:46PM (#45285119)
That’s not how amendments work
Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by LorenPechtel on Tuesday September 16, 2025 @04:15PM (#45267391)
Don't look at school shootings, they don't matter. What matters is how many, not by what means. Note that the most deadly such attack was with a truck, not a gun.

The data proves nothing about whether it works because it's a cultural problem far more than it is a means problem. They choose to go out in a blaze of infamy rather than be a nobody. They generally are planned long in advance, there's plenty of lethal things they can get their hands on.

Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by LorenPechtel on Tuesday September 16, 2025 @04:11PM (#45267338)
The thing is gun laws won't protect against school shootings unless you basically completely disarm the population--which is not realistically possible as there would be too much non-compliance. And note two things about the data:

1) Many sources seek to inflate the number of school shootings by counting incidents in which the school is only incidental, not the target. Think drug deal in the parking lot when school is out etc. And note that counting firearm deaths to minors counts mostly gang vs gang stuff.

2) It is almost certain that guns save more people in self defense situations than they take in all mass shootings (using the realistic test of public and indiscriminate targets--again, the numbers are inflated by things like gang fights), let alone just school shootings. (And, no, I do not believe Lott's numbers. He's way high and an awful lot of what he does count is deterred robbers and the like, where death was unlikely in the first place.)

Re:California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, ... by tmaly on Monday September 15, 2025 @11:37AM (#45250997)
This is just going to create a regulatory moat where only the incumbents can survive.