That said, Kirk, in this exchange was not engaging in debate so much as theatrics. The question that was posed to him was intended to force him to acknowledge that being trans doesn’t seem to be associated with a unique propensity to engage in mass shootings. Instead, he responded in a way that was ideologically motivated. Quite a few people praised Kirk for engaging in debate, but if this is exemplary of his format, not bringing in facts, then I would call it more performative than debate.
Regardless, this is awful; and I hope the repercussions for the trans community aren’t dire.
Creating a society where women feel less inclined to have abortions.
Definitely would have paid less tax!
1. Audrey Hale (Nashville, 2023) 2. Alec McKinney (Denver, 2019) 3. Snochia Moseley (Aberdeen, 2018) 4. Robin Westman (Minneapolis, 2025)
> Using FBI active shooter data (excludes gang violence), there were 85 non-gang-related mass shooters in the US from 2021-2025 (24 in 2024, 48 in 2023, 13 in 2022, ~0 in 2021; 2025 data incomplete as of Sep 14).
There are absolutely too many trans mass shooters.
Sure. This is a nice indication you're doing a little sleight of hand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_San_Jose_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Boulder_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianapolis_FedEx_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Atlanta_spa_shootings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Rock_Hill_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Muskogee_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Chicago%E2%80%93Evanston_...
I'm sure you knew all their perpetrators' names by heart, right?
https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R48276
> Active shooter incidents that meet the federal standard for mass killings have at least three fatalities in a single incident, not including the shooter. If the police are notified of the incident after it has concluded or the event occurs in a sparsely populated public place, then it is not considered by the FBI to be an active shooter incident.
> Incidents resulting from self-defense, gang violence, drug violence, domestic or residential disputes, hostage situations, or crossfire as a byproduct of another ongoing criminal act, as well as acts that do not put other people in peril, are also not considered active shooter incidents.
The Kirk shooting, therefore, was not an "active shooter" by this definition, either. I suspect that definition would be a surprise to the folks there.
2 Minnesota lawmakers shot in politically motivated killings, governor says (cbc.ca) 102 points by awnird 88 days ago | hide | past | favorite | 19 comments
What retaliation did this trigger?
Depends what your objective is. If your goal is to accelerate political violence and set Americans at odds to an even greater degree than they already are, it's completely rational. I have no idea who did it; it could be domestic extremists, foreign actors, cynical strategists. It might be some isolated murderous person with a chip on their shoulder who totally hated Kirk, but that seems like the least likely possibility because of the fact that they've made a clean getaway - 12 hours with no CCTV imagery or even a good description is unusual for such a public event.
We heard what happened on July 13th, and even from this far, culturally and physically, we could see (and this is not to play down an attempt on someone's life) – ah, there goes that election.
How the impulsive acts of violence have changed the course of history too many times, how people in power, people looking to take power twist and use such events. We don't learn from all that history, do we?
The issue isn't just about one thread, it's about the overall pattern of using the site.
A crackdown on trans people would be disastrous for the Rust community.
My opinion on why it gained traction: the group is already marginalized, is part of a larger, also marginalized group (lgbtq community), and shootings are unpopular, while guns are, so it benefits the speaker to connect the two. There are also narratives floating around that are in synergy with this connection, such as the tragic statistic that trans people have a very high suicide rate, and the false narrative that being transgender is a mental illness.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/transgender-mass-shootings...
Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. It will eventually get your main account banned as well.
The effect would be subtle, but following Peter Turchin's theory of elite overproduction, assassinations of union elites after the civil war supposedly blunted the effects of the reconstruction.
I too am trans.
Unfortunately, and you probably have already heard. ATF leaked that the rounds were etched with pro-trans messaging and the shooter is allegedly a trans man.
Assuming this all turns out to be true. This will lead to greater hatred; far more than before.
Hard to predict what will happen but let me give examples from history each time this has happened.
Christians were thrown to the lions in Ancient Rome.
Many times through history for the jews.
Muslims and crusader kings of spain.
Irish and chinese, the chinese exclusion act of 1882?
armenian ?genocide?
rwanda tutis.
We now have a situation where government must do something about the trans shooter issue. LAwfully they'd have to take each trans person to court to prove mental illness to ban them from 2nd amendment right. Technically... DSM5 is pretty clear about it...
fortunately, this was bogus! the "pro-trans messaging" was that the bullets were stamped with "TRN," which was the manufacturer's mark, and the shooter was a 22yo cis Mormon male.
some of Charlie Kirk's last words:
> ATTENDEE: Do you know how many transgender Americans have been mass shooters over the last 10 years?
> KIRK: Too many. [Applause]
I don't think the shooter was trans. but I'm trans, and I don't see this going well for me, or for my community. the DoJ was already talking about classifying us as "mentally defective" to take our guns. now there's a martyr. the hornet's nest is kicked.
murdering this man was not just wrong, it was stupid.