News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by pm90 on Tuesday August 12, 2025 @05:24PM (#44881973)
How will jailing them help? Now the public is on the hook for them. Plus, more jails will be needed if you wanna move all the unhoused in there.

Maybe its easier just to build more housing.

Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by ecshafer on Tuesday August 12, 2025 @08:11PM (#44883270)
I spent a month in China and saw one homeless person there who was disabled and panhandljng by a tourist location. The subways and trains and stations had no one pissing on the ground, no one sleeping there (except officeworkers resting their eyes on their commute). There were no human feeces on the ground.

Maybe, just maybe we dont have to throw our hands up in the air and say theres nothing to do while we allow a small group of people to make our cities unlivable.

Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by blacksmith_tb on Tuesday August 12, 2025 @11:09PM (#44884301)
"A small group of people [who] make our cities unlivable"... you mean, real estate developers?
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by hombre_fatal on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @08:31AM (#44887651)
The people who are regularly blocked from building housing are the ones making our cities unlivable?
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by blacksmith_tb on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @03:32PM (#44892772)
Well, I was obviously kidding, developers who build overpriced housing, or unneeded office or retail are part of the problem just like developers who build homes, especially affordable ones, are part of the solution.
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by ahmeneeroe-v2 on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @04:25PM (#44893414)
Developers can't build "overpriced housing". If it's overpriced, it won't sell and the developer loses money until they right-price it and it sells.
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by blacksmith_tb on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @06:18PM (#44894544)
Ah, the wisdom of the market. I could rephrase that as "housing targeted for the rich" who are already pretty well-served, unlike the poor.
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by ahmeneeroe-v2 on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @06:49PM (#44894812)
It's not the "wisdom of the market" it is simply that pricing isn't set by the seller, it is set by a dynamic process between seller and the buyer.

If you don't believe me, try selling a luxury good targeting a rich buyer on FB Marketplace and see if you can set the pricing arbitrarily high.

Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by locao on Thursday August 14, 2025 @12:19AM (#44896709)
You're completely missing the point. Unless your name is Ferrari or something like that, you didn't build said luxury item.
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by ecshafer on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @09:41AM (#44888333)
How does a company that builds buildings make cities unlivable? Replacing some SFH with an 8 unit apartment or whatever would make the city more livable.
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by nradov on Tuesday August 12, 2025 @11:12PM (#44884316)
Be careful what you wish for. China also has the hukou system, which is sort of an internal passport that effectively prevents many people from moving into the popular tourist locations. Get out into the rural areas and you'll still see a lot of real poverty, although housing is cheap enough there that there aren't many homeless.

There's also a cultural factor at work. Allowing a relative to be homeless causes loss of face so family members feel more obligated to pitch in and help them out, sometimes to the extent of providing a free room. (I'm stereotyping a bit here but it's generally true.)

Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by KptMarchewa on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @04:28AM (#44885903)
Countries generally have a immigration system that prevents people from moving there when you don't have enough money to support yourself.
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by throwaway31131 on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @09:35AM (#44888261)
In my experience most countries put barriers in place to prevent people from moving into the country, from another country, when you don't have enough money to support yourself, but I believe the parent is describing a system that puts barriers in place for internal migration of its citizens.

Russia has a similar system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resident_registration_in_Russi...

Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by asyx on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @06:45PM (#44894771)
Read again. This is for Chinese citizens.
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by CryptoBanker on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @10:32AM (#44888980)
In China there might not be people peeing in the subway, but when I was there a couple years ago there were plenty of people (especially children) peeing in the streets
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by locao on Thursday August 14, 2025 @12:22AM (#44896715)
I've been there last month for a week and didn't see any.
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by wkat4242 on Tuesday August 12, 2025 @06:44PM (#44882642)
They're not the kind of people that can afford housing nor the kind that are able to get a rental contract in the first place. And if they had money they'd just shoot up more. Not trying to diss them but that's just reality.

There's very few people homeless because they can't afford it even despite the insane rent prices. Usually it's a ton of untreated mental issues and/or drug addiction.

Building more houses will help regular people a ton but not the homeless. More shelters will. Good and affordable mental healthcare too. But that's "communism" so I guess that won't fly in MAGA America.

Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by matthewdgreen on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @08:36AM (#44887693)
There have been a bunch of recent studies of this and yes, providing housing seems to dramatically reduce homelessness. https://endhomelessness.org/resources/sharable-graphics/data...
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by wkat4242 on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @09:54PM (#44895947)
Like the other person said the welfare system is apparently that bad in the US.

But in Europe I've mainly seen people with mental/drug issues and those from fringe groups like gypsies. There have been plenty of projects involving giving them housing for free, but it never works. The neighborhood quickly becomes a no-go area with constant police presence. They sell all the inventory for drugs, flats become dirty and infested etc.

There's a reason these people are homeless and that has to be solved first.

But if regular people are homeless then the system is really failing them on basic welfare :(

Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by amanaplanacanal on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @10:01AM (#44888573)
From the data I have seen you are incorrect. Certainly the most visible and disruptive of the homeless are the meth heads and folks with serious mental health problems, but a large chunk are people who simply can't afford a place to live. Los of people living out of their cars out there.
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by wkat4242 on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @09:46PM (#44895906)
Ok I was speaking from my knowledge of here in Europe (my ex worked with homeless and unemployed) and here it's really not the case. People here don't live on the streets unless there's something seriously wrong with them. Anyone else is well supported by the welfare system. They won't be rich and it may take a while and often not in a good area but they'll have a place to live.

If this is common for regular people in the US then the system is really letting them down and I'm starting to understand why people vote for Trump (though I'm sure this will only make things worse for them)

Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by amanaplanacanal on Thursday August 14, 2025 @12:18PM (#44902300)
Ah! Yeah we are having completely different experiences, since I'm in the US.

I expect you are correct about the votes for Trump. Voting for change without understanding if that change is likely to be good or bad. Public policy issues are complex and most people probably don't have the time or energy to understand exactly what they are voting for.

Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by charcircuit on Tuesday August 12, 2025 @07:36PM (#44883025)
>Now the public is on the hook for them.

Prisoners can pay for their share by providing their labor.

Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by pixl97 on Tuesday August 12, 2025 @08:10PM (#44883264)
Yay neo-slavery!
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by throawaywpg on Tuesday August 12, 2025 @10:51PM (#44884200)
yeah! and at $1.25 an hour, we can keep them working it off for life! what a great plan.
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by charcircuit on Tuesday August 12, 2025 @11:22PM (#44884370)
Federal minimum wage is higher than that. I'm sure ether is some kind of job that can be created that pays more than $1.25 in order to try and pay their share.
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by throawaywpg on Tuesday August 12, 2025 @11:37PM (#44884442)
Prisoners are not subject to minimum wage laws and are routinely paid wages far below it. In fact, the average wage for prisoners seems to much lower than my generous $1.25 an hour. But then, im a benevolent-ish overlord.

"They earn, on average, between 13 cents and 52 cents per hour nationwide. " https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploit...

Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by charcircuit on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @12:42AM (#44884704)
It's in the tax payers interest that prisoners make as much money as possible, while not threatening the rest of society. My point of bringing up minimum wage is that it is a reference point for the value of human labor that prisoners are competiting against others with.
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by throawaywpg on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @09:43AM (#44888356)
It's a nice idea. Unfortunately literally nothing about the modern prison system works in the taxpayers interest.
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by mvdtnz on Tuesday August 12, 2025 @07:45PM (#44883093)
> Now the public is on the hook for them.

Uhh as opposed to some private business that should just, what, deal with it? Who else should be responsible for solving homelessness if not the public?

Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by hshdhdhj4444 on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @02:09AM (#44885112)
The public should be responsible.

Prison is the worst way for the public to solve this problem.

It’s more expensive (incarceration is extremely expensive), eliminates the possibility of the individuals being productive, introduces them to people who will push them towards more crime (not just the apparent “crime” of not being able to afford a shelter), etc.

Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by brailsafe on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @02:56AM (#44885372)
> Now the public is on the hook for them. Plus, more jails will be needed if you wanna move all the unhoused in there.

> Maybe its easier just to build more housing.

Maybe instead of letting a George Carlin joke from 30 years ago become reality by calling them something different, patting ourselves on the back, then delegating responsibility to whoever's not building houses and subsequently (often) protest the construction of those houses, we should accept that the public is and should be on the hook for them. If not, then we're just a bunch of pathetic individualists who haven't realized the social safety around them is about as strong as cheap wet toilet paper.

Living somewhere is not on its own a contribution to society, and building more housing is not enough to uplift people out of severe fentanyl or meth addiction; people on the street are not having conversations about esoteric zoning policies and hoping studio apartments stay at only $2500/m because supply increased marginally quicker over the next 10 years while birth rates dropped and immigration slowed.

Supply is an issue, but it's often a red herring. Homeless people are the public, we are the public, blight and suffering within society is society's issue, not just when the Olympics roll around or the leader of a major foreign nation rolls up

Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by profsummergig on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @07:12AM (#44887020)
having the public on the "hook" for them is more responsible than forcing private establishments to pick up the tab. starbucks doesn't want to be on the hook for them either.
Re:Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in pri... by ahmeneeroe-v2 on Wednesday August 13, 2025 @04:23PM (#44893401)
The public is already on the hook for them. With jails at least we get our public spaces back