Honestly I find it kind of sickening how much people treat this conflict like picking a sports team. I’ve been saying that from the start - I feel for the civilians caught in the middle of this conflict, from both Israel and Gaza.

I’ve caught flak from both sides for saying so. Some people seem deadset on making an enemy of nuance.

Ideology is basically the opposite of nuance.

I see your point, but it can also be frustrating when people “both-sides” every atrocity. It’s sort of like saying “All Lives Matter” at every police shooting.

I guess. But, the conflict in the middle east is insanely complex. Anyone claiming you can simplify the situation into "good guys" vs "bad guys" just doesn't understand the history of the region. Or they're lying about it, because they want a sports team.

> It’s sort of like saying “All Lives Matter” at every police shooting.

Eh. I hear that as a less articulate, more annoying way to say "I care more generally about police violence more than police violence against black people, specifically." Seems reasonable to me, even if people bring it up in an oblique way.

It's less "both sides" and more "two of the four sides." There is Hamas, the weak but fanatical terrorist organization, the powerful and cruel ruling Israeli administration and military, the Palestinian citizens struggling to survive, and the Israeli citizens. The latter two are mostly not committing crimes against humanity¹. By the laws of war Israel signed into, civilians should be protected. Civilians are not parties in a war

1: The violent Israeli settlers, if certain accounts are true, are committing crimes against humanity. But you can't punish every Israeli just because they share nationality with a criminal. Just like we shouldn't starve Palestinians who live in the same area as Hamas.

I haven't seen any proposal that seeks to punish regular Israeli citizens. Is there anything specific you're referring to?

No. I'm just saying we should remember that regular Palestinian citizens deserve the same compassion and support as the regular Israeli citizens.

That’s how every war since the beginning of time has worked. Most people aren’t into mass murder until you dehumanize the “bad guys” and make it a team vs team thing.

Look at how many Americans clamor for the mass murder of enslaved Russian teenagers.

“Those dead kids? The starved kids? The thousands of photos and videos of indiscriminate bombing? The testimony of doctors talking about the groupings of identical injuries and wounds to kids on the same day? The live streamed barbarity? That’s propaganda! God bless Israel!”

How many pictures and videos of war came out of Gaza prior to October 7th (other than the usual terrorist rockets on civilias)?

If you wanna cry, go cry to Hamas who started it all.

To refresh your memory: saturday-october-seven.com

You've been breaking the site guidelines repeatedly and badly in this thread, and you've posted 28 (!) comments, most of which have been doing this. That's way beyond the pale, so regardless of which side you're taking in the conflict, please stop.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

Flagging or not flagging an article has no impact on the war. No matter how enthusiastic you are at your keyboard, you won’t stop those kids getting bombed.

And there are other reasons to flag an article like this - like some people would rather HN have less politics.

People form beliefs and make judgments based on things they do not know, it is nothing surprising[1]. I would recommend reading the history of Israel (vs. Palestine, especially).

Yeah, Hamzah has been making lots of videos of IDF soldiers (and other Israelites) saying that they want all Palestinian children to die, and that their lives are worth more than Palestinians' lives.

I am not surprised by any of this, the media is probably controlled. They hear what the Government wants them to hear, which is this: they are the good guys.

[1] I do not claim to know everything either, which should be very obvious, but I try to postpone forming a judgment.

I feel it's not going to last longer. With the advent of modern, mass media, young people across the West can see for themselves and they're taking a side. More specifically, they don't want their governments funding genocide with their taxes. This cannot be made to go away, which is why Zionist activists and their lackeys are pulling out all the stops: no one expected the outburst of disgust at Israel's actions would get this severe, so they're in nonstop damage control mode.

The problem is the modern mass deception. We keep seeing "evidence" that doesn't support the claims.

I only know the history, I do not know what exactly is happening today.

It is still sickening (in my humble opinion) that many people straight out tell him that they want children to die, but only Palestinian children.

That's why I say the war is already over. Hamas won. The Israeli public is too enraged by Oct 7 and it can't pursue a long term goal because it has to feed the need for vengeance. The only group that truly benefits from continued conflict is Hamas, everyone else is a victim of circumstance.

> The only group that truly benefits from continued conflict is Hamas

Well, them and Israeli far right who have been able to stay in power so far.

I hope what you're saying is true. But I fear that the ability of the genociders to control the narrative is still very strong.

> I guess saying that the systematic murder of civilians is bad is now a controversial opinion, lmao.

No, but this mode of discourse is obnoxious and uncharitable.

> Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.

> Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

Nor does it help to treat something as trivial as a forum's commenting guidelines as if they were a religious text to cudgel people with.

This is a genocide. Get some perspective.

In spaces that were explicitly created with the intent of hosting civil, respectful discourse, it is always appropriate to insist the that discourse remain civil and respectful.

Part of civility and respect is not demanding that other people see things your way, or supposing that there is something wrong with them if the evidence available to them has not led them to the same conclusion as you. Another part is not ironically laughing because things don't go your way. Another part is not insisting that you are being persecuted for entirely innocent conduct in a way that ignores previously provided explanations for why that conduct was not considered innocent by others.