Re:I'm a Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It
by DaveZale on Tuesday July 15, 2025 @07:21PM
(#44576957)
What is this Israeli "self-censorship" claim? BS. Haaretz publishes plenty about the atrocities in progress. Far more than the American media dares to publish.
"In February the BBC apologised over "serious flaws" in the making of the programme about children's lives in Gaza, after it was revealed its 13-year-old narrator was the son of a Hamas minister."
Re:I'm a Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It
by NomDePlum on Wednesday July 16, 2025 @12:41PM
(#44584308)
There was no correction on what was actually said though. It's a terrible state of affairs when who someone is related to, is of more concern than the horrific and constant terrors they and other children have had inflicted upon them by Israel for nearly 2 years.
Re:I'm a Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It
by DaveZale on Wednesday July 16, 2025 @01:39PM
(#44584929)
agree. Typical propaganda approach, harp on some minor point to change the discussion. Some say Neta created Hamas to weaken another organization at the time. The whole history of what's been happening there is very complicated and nuanced. The motto of their intel org reads, "by way of deception, though shalt do war" so it's not surprising that truth seems artificially scarce.
Re:I'm a Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It
by frollogaston on Wednesday July 16, 2025 @02:12PM
(#44585254)
Because they couldn't independently verify or revise, and Israel can't be trusted either. It's ridiculous how so many BBC articles are like "source: Hamas." This documentary reveal wasn't even surprising, I thought it went without saying.
Re:I'm a Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It
by dlubarov on Wednesday July 16, 2025 @08:22PM
(#44588354)
There were some fairly questionable translations, like translating "Yahud" (Jews) to "Israel" or "Israeli forces". To me that's more of a red flag than any Hamas affiliation.
Re:I'm a Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It
by like_any_other on Tuesday July 15, 2025 @07:26PM
(#44576995)
> genocide denotes the killing of people as members of a group, geared at irreparably destroying the group itself so that it would never be able to reconstitute itself as a political, social or cultural entity.
I'm glad to see the right to nationhood recognized, instead of being dismissed in favor of individualism. Now to see if this recognition will be evenly applied.
Israeli soldiers are killing not only others but themselves. We have to know the truth, otherwise we're all just lost at sea without a compass, or even a map.
Re:I'm a Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It
by tguvot on Tuesday July 15, 2025 @09:45PM
(#44577883)
first comment on your link: What's important to remember is that at this point (as in prior to 1948) both Jews and Arabs were referred to as Palestinians since it was the common name for the region
besides this i am not sure what exactly this map supposed to show. 30 years before that this area was called "province syria palestina" and was part of ottoman empire for hundreds of years
Surely this question was not asked in earnest. You’ll say that this colonial possession was not a “state,” as though it had a different status than the other mandates and British colonies that turned into states during the 20th century.
Re:I'm a Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It
by dlubarov on Tuesday July 15, 2025 @10:31PM
(#44578114)
"The whole of Israel was formerly Palestine" was rather ambiguous. If the poster meant "The whole of Israel was formerly Mandatory Palestine", then okay that's accurate, but it seemed like the idea was to draw a connection to what we now call the Palestinian people or the State of Palestine. Mandatory Palestine was a very different entity which governed a more diverse group of people.
Re:I'm a Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It
by andrewinardeer on Tuesday July 15, 2025 @10:59PM
(#44578264)
The genocide by RSF in Darfur is appealing. This should also be splashed across the front pages of newspapers and leading TV bulletins too, however, that genocide is relegated to a half paragraph mention tucked away on page 29 if you're lucky.
Re:I'm a Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It
by jokoon on Wednesday July 16, 2025 @04:14AM
(#44579876)
It's difficult to not do some whataboutism with Sudan.
It could also be seen as genocide against genocide because of oct 7: Egypt, iran and hamas have setup ugly conditions for this war.
The unwillingness of Hamas to disarm and liberate hostages made this war uglier than it should, and Palestinians would probably agree.
It's a bit true that Israel uses the Holocaust to justify what it's doing, to me that is historically understandable, but it doesn't justify everything either.
Those events are not happening in a vacuum. Hamas is an Iranian proxy at Israel's border. Imagine if the EU or the US had a border with an Iranian proxy, with jihadists etc.
I try to think what Israel could have done better. If Israel has been less aggressive in Gaza, Hamas would be much stronger and they would have more hostages.
I don't think there is a timeline where things could have been better.
Re:I'm a Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It
by CjHuber on Wednesday July 16, 2025 @05:24AM
(#44580320)
I honestly don‘t understand how someone can frame October 7 as genocidal. Gaza was a pressure cooker due to Israel’s inhumane treatment and something like this was to be expected, and I my opinion this was provoked to justify the collective punishment and weakening of not just hamas but the entire Palestinian population.
For years Netanyahu openly admitted he was “bolstering Hamas” with Qatari cash to sabotage a Palestinian state [1]
All in all, Israel’s historical pattern of leveraging crises for territorial or political gain makes it reasonable to suspect that they were less interested in preventing October 7 than in exploiting it
Re:I'm a Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It
by derelicta on Wednesday July 16, 2025 @05:45AM
(#44580428)
As you should. But the Gaza genocide does not stem from a religious conflict. It comes from a war of conquest led and engineered by the West to protect its last colony. It would be more like if Americans had decided to wipe out the Vietnamese and replace the inhabitants of Vietnam with Westerners.
The editorial scrutiny here is minimal at best.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Israel
Pressure, intimidation, and censorship: Israeli journalists have faced growing repression in the past year https://rsf.org/en/pressure-intimidation-and-censorship-isra...
It's wartime, so censorship is publicly asknowledged there.
I might add that journalists in Gaza are often killed.
bbc reports occasionally on the Gaza situation. Like this
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cg4rwrkdlzxo
What happened to the US media? It all seems to be recipes, dating advice, wellness tips on the front pages.
I am in the US but get my news from elsewhere. It is not an option anymore;-)
"In February the BBC apologised over "serious flaws" in the making of the programme about children's lives in Gaza, after it was revealed its 13-year-old narrator was the son of a Hamas minister."
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_Israel
I'm glad to see the right to nationhood recognized, instead of being dismissed in favor of individualism. Now to see if this recognition will be evenly applied.
Gaza has been destroyed. So which country do you refer to? The whole of Israel was formerly Palestine.
And the nyt article infers that the creation of Israel was a reaction to a previous genocide. That is false. It was plotted since the 19th century.
Isn't that the rallying cry?
You know how to search. Find the map. Know the history.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/12s6lq5/this_map_o... from Natgeo
Israeli soldiers are killing not only others but themselves. We have to know the truth, otherwise we're all just lost at sea without a compass, or even a map.
besides this i am not sure what exactly this map supposed to show. 30 years before that this area was called "province syria palestina" and was part of ottoman empire for hundreds of years
- Israeli Arabs : 30%-40%
- Palestinian Arabs: 30%-40%
- Palestinians: 10%-15%
- Christian Arabs: 5%-10%
- Etc : 5%
Guy that I spent two years with in same room was self identifying as "Arab, Orthodox Christian, Communist".
Those who live in west bank have more permutations of identities, with some of them mostly identifying with their clan or religion
Surely this question was not asked in earnest. You’ll say that this colonial possession was not a “state,” as though it had a different status than the other mandates and British colonies that turned into states during the 20th century.
It could also be seen as genocide against genocide because of oct 7: Egypt, iran and hamas have setup ugly conditions for this war.
The unwillingness of Hamas to disarm and liberate hostages made this war uglier than it should, and Palestinians would probably agree.
It's a bit true that Israel uses the Holocaust to justify what it's doing, to me that is historically understandable, but it doesn't justify everything either.
Those events are not happening in a vacuum. Hamas is an Iranian proxy at Israel's border. Imagine if the EU or the US had a border with an Iranian proxy, with jihadists etc.
I try to think what Israel could have done better. If Israel has been less aggressive in Gaza, Hamas would be much stronger and they would have more hostages.
I don't think there is a timeline where things could have been better.
For years Netanyahu openly admitted he was “bolstering Hamas” with Qatari cash to sabotage a Palestinian state [1]
All in all, Israel’s historical pattern of leveraging crises for territorial or political gain makes it reasonable to suspect that they were less interested in preventing October 7 than in exploiting it
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/20/benjam...
it's totally insane to frame a killing as despicable as it is like here as genocidal.