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Re:In a First, Solar Was Europe's Biggest Source of Power La... by mrtksn on Friday July 11, 2025 @03:15PM (#44535912)
We will take the day off I guess as we run the critical stuff on nuclear. I don't fancy nuclear because it's too involved, takes forever to build, its a big deal, needs long term planning. I also don't believe that there are enough smart and trustworthy people to take care of a nuclear infrastructure that powers the world for generations, disasters will happen. Let's use the quick, simple, safe and unlimited potential. Nuclear has its place for sure though.
Re:In a First, Solar Was Europe's Biggest Source of Power La... by engineer_22 on Friday July 11, 2025 @03:34PM (#44536068)
Solar efficiency degrades over time. When these sites are no longer economical their owners will turn to bankruptcy, we'll have thousands of hectares of green fields covered in disarrayed broken blue panels, overgrown, unmaintained, a public nuisance of massive proportions in the making.
Re:In a First, Solar Was Europe's Biggest Source of Power La... by bryanlarsen on Friday July 11, 2025 @04:00PM (#44536290)
Those locations have a large grid connection, which is valuable enough to pay for the decomissioning / cleanup costs so something else can use the connection.

Heck, there are companies cleaning up coal plants to use the connection for solar or wind, and that's a lot more expensive than cleaning up an old solar plant.

Re:In a First, Solar Was Europe's Biggest Source of Power La... by ForestCritter on Friday July 11, 2025 @05:57PM (#44537173)
Solar panels are not degradable and are piling up in toxic landfills as are windmill blades.
Re:In a First, Solar Was Europe's Biggest Source of Power La... by ben_w on Friday July 11, 2025 @06:06PM (#44537236)
Solar panels are made of exactly the stuff needed to make solar panels.
Re:In a First, Solar Was Europe's Biggest Source of Power La... by Sabinus on Friday July 11, 2025 @08:52PM (#44538327)
The ability to recycle solar panels will only get better with time.
Re:In a First, Solar Was Europe's Biggest Source of Power La... by adrianN on Friday July 11, 2025 @11:14PM (#44538991)
Nuclear waste is not biodegradable either...
Re:In a First, Solar Was Europe's Biggest Source of Power La... by defrost on Friday July 11, 2025 @11:23PM (#44539024)
I'm not pro nuclear, but FWiW:

There are bioremedition techniques used to treat contaminated sites, just as there are similar techniques for toxic metals contamination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioremediation_of_radioactive_...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266676572...

Re:In a First, Solar Was Europe's Biggest Source of Power La... by adrianN on Friday July 11, 2025 @11:37PM (#44539081)
The radioactive material doesn’t go away, it’s either diluted until safe or concentrated until you can bury it somewhere safe.
Re:In a First, Solar Was Europe's Biggest Source of Power La... by defrost on Friday July 11, 2025 @11:42PM (#44539098)
So we shouldn't bioremediate radioactive or heavy metals contaminated sites then?

The point being, there are biological processes that address toxic waste.

Further, there are waste issues with pretty much all human uses of energy and resources, including "green" technologies. It's impossible to have green tech w/out rare earths, and impossible to have rare earth end products w/out creating radioactive waste.

* https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/05/business/china-rare-earth...

* https://hamiltonlocke.com.au/unlocking-clean-energy-the-cruc...

The sane approach is to address external costs from the get go, not assert that there are none.

Re:In a First, Solar Was Europe's Biggest Source of Power La... by adrianN on Friday July 11, 2025 @11:44PM (#44539111)
The point is that solar panels in landfills are not a problem and nuclear is not a panacea.
Re:In a First, Solar Was Europe's Biggest Source of Power La... by defrost on Friday July 11, 2025 @11:49PM (#44539134)
Either path leaves us with radioactive waste to treat.
Re:In a First, Solar Was Europe's Biggest Source of Power La... by ben_w on Saturday July 12, 2025 @04:04AM (#44540213)
> It's impossible to have green tech w/out rare earths, and impossible to have rare earth end products w/out creating radioactive waste.

Where do you get this idea from? (If it's NYT, paywall, can't read it).

Solar power does not leave us with radioactive waste.

Considering radiation and heavy metals as the same problem because they're both bad for you and involve remediation processes when things go wrong is like treating a lack of seatbelts in cars the same as sugar induced diabetes.

Closest I can think of for why someone might think "rare earths" are "radioactive" is lithium deposits come in salt flats, salt flats contain potassium, some potassium is radioactive. But that's already diffused everywhere on the planet making *all life* radioactive well before we arrived in the pre-neolithic.

Re:In a First, Solar Was Europe's Biggest Source of Power La... by defrost on Saturday July 12, 2025 @04:13AM (#44540238)
> Where do you get this idea from..

a few decades in mineral and energy exploration, processing, etc.

> (If it's NYT, paywall, can't read it).

Try archive.md et al.

See second link:

Unlocking Clean Energy: The Crucial Role of Rare Earth Minerals: What’s all the Fuss About?

  Without an abundance of rare earth minerals, renewable energy technologies would not exist in their current form or would be highly inefficient when compared with traditional generation methods such as oil, coal and gas. 
> Closest I can think of for why someone might think "rare earths" are "radioactive"

Any reason your "thinks" might be better than actual exposure to mineral processing IRL ?

China, Malaysia, other rare earth processing locations have concentrations of radioactive waste as a result of refining concentrates to end product (see NYT article).

Re:In a First, Solar Was Europe's Biggest Source of Power La... by ben_w on Saturday July 12, 2025 @02:19PM (#44543897)
Right, got it.

I'm one of today's lucky 10,000, this is a new and exciting definition of "radioactive waste" that I was previously unaware of.

All previous uses of the phrase "radioactive waste" I have encountered, have been "things produced in a nuclear reactor or by a nuclear weapon detonation", and not simply "found in ores that also have thorium and uranium". (While this is broader than my potassium example, I think it's of the same category).

I'll note that alternative meaning for future use. I'm sure you're not the only one on here who would use it in this sense, and wouldn't want to mix up these two very different risks.

Of course, the consequence of this definition is that there is, in this sense, "radioactive waste" from coal mining. What with the trace levels of, IIRC, both uranium and thorium in coal.

Re:In a First, Solar Was Europe's Biggest Source of Power La... by mrtksn on Friday July 11, 2025 @03:51PM (#44536213)
Everything degrades over time.
Re:In a First, Solar Was Europe's Biggest Source of Power La... by ChocolateGod on Friday July 11, 2025 @04:43PM (#44536615)
Yeh, it's not as if they can't replace the solar panels or anything.
Re:In a First, Solar Was Europe's Biggest Source of Power La... by mikeyouse on Friday July 11, 2025 @04:53PM (#44536695)
Just absolute nonsense. Modern panels are often guaranteed to produce 90% of their nameplate capacity for 25 years and then degrade at something like 0.35%/year afterwards. A panel installed today will likely be generating more than 60% of it's capacity by 2100 and will have done so for 75 years.
Re:In a First, Solar Was Europe's Biggest Source of Power La... by ericd on Friday July 11, 2025 @09:17PM (#44538462)
Good thing it only takes a couple dudes with impact drivers and a truck to tear that down in under a week. Even a hand truck is good enough to cart a few of them away at a time.