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Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by fnord77 on Friday July 04, 2025 @03:32PM (#44467230)
these little boxes are perfect for my home

My use case is a backup server for my macs and cold storage for movies.

6x2Tb drives will give me a 9Tb raid-5 for $809 ($100 each for the drives, $209 for the nas).

Very quiet so I can have it in my living room plugged into my TV. < 10W power.

I have no room for a big noisy server.

Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by sandreas on Friday July 04, 2025 @04:41PM (#44467725)
While I get your point about size, I'd not use RAID-5 for my personal homelab. I'd also say that 6x2TB drives are not the optimal solution for low power consumption. You're also missing out server quality BIOS, Design/Stability/x64 and remote management. However, not bad.

While my Server is quite big compared to a "mini" device, it's silent. No CPU Fan only 120mm case fans spinning around 500rpm, maybe 900rpm on load - hardly noticable. I've also a completely passive backup solution with a Streacom FC5, but I don't really trust it for the chipsets, so I also installed a low rpm 120mm fan.

How did you fit 6 drives in a "mini" case? Using Asus Flashstor or beelink?

Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by epistasis on Friday July 04, 2025 @05:50PM (#44468123)
I'm interested in learning more about your setup. What sort of system did you put together for $350? Is it a normal ATX case? I really like the idea of running proxmox but I don't know how to get something cheap!
Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by sandreas on Saturday July 05, 2025 @01:27AM (#44470274)
My current config:

  Fujitsu D3417-B12
  Intel Xeon 1225
  64GB ecc
  WD SN850x 2TB
  mATX case
  Pico PSU 150
For backup I use a 2TB enterprise HDD and ZFS send

For snapshotting i use zfs-auto-snapshot

So really nothing recommendable for buying today. You could go for this

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006369887180.html

Or an old Fujitsu Celsius W580 Workstation with a Bojiadafast ATX Power Supply Adapter, if you need harddisks.

Unfortunately there is no silver bullet these days. The old stuff is... well too old or no longer available and the new stuff is either to pricey, lacks features (ECC and 2.5G mainly) or to power hungry.

A year ago there were bargains for Gigabyte MC12-LE0 board available for < 50bucks, but nowadays these cost about 250 again. These boards also had the problem of drawing too much power for an ultra low power homelab.

If I HAD to buy one today, I'd probably go for a Ryzen Pro 5700 with a gaming board (like ASUS ROG Strix B550-F Gaming) with ECC RAM, which is supported on some boards.

Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by fnord77 on Monday July 07, 2025 @10:21PM (#44496406)
does the bios support S3 sleep and wake on lan?
Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by Dylan16807 on Friday July 04, 2025 @10:20PM (#44469640)
> I'd not use RAID-5 for my personal homelab.

What would you use instead?

ZFS is better than raw RAID, but 1 parity per 5 data disks is a pretty good match for the reliability you can expect out of any one machine.

Much more important than better parity is having backups. Maybe more important than having any parity, though if you have no parity please use JBOD and not RAID-0.

Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by sandreas on Saturday July 05, 2025 @01:21AM (#44470252)
I'd almost always use RAID-1 or if I had > 4 disks, maybe RAID-6. RAID-5 seems very cost effective at first, but if you loose a drive the probability of losing another one in the restoring process is pretty high (I don't have the numbers, but I researched that years ago). The disk-replacement process produces very high load on the non defective disks and the more you have the riskier the process. Another aspect is that 5 drives draw way more power than 2 and you cannot (easily) upgrade the capacity, although ZFS offers a feature for RAID5-expansion.

Since RAID is not meant for backup, but for reliability, losing a drive while restoring will kill your storage pool and having to restore the whole data from a backup (e.g. from a cloud drive)is probably not what you want, since it takes time where the device is offline. If you rely on RAID5 without having a backup you're done.

So I have a RAID1, which is simple, reliable and easy to maintain. Replacing 2 drives with higher capacity ones and increasing the storage is easy.

Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by timc3 on Saturday July 05, 2025 @01:29AM (#44470281)
I would run 2 or more parity disks always. I have had disks fail and rebuilding with only one parity drive is scary (have seen rebuilds go bad because a second drive failed whilst rebuilding).

But agree about backups.

Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by Dylan16807 on Saturday July 05, 2025 @02:14AM (#44470465)
Were those arrays doing regular scrubs, so that they experience rebuild-equivalent load every month or two and it's not a sudden shock to them?

If your odds of disk failure in a rebuild are "only" 10x normal failure rate, and it takes a week, 5 disks will all survive that week 98% of the time. That's plenty for a NAS.

Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by dwedge on Saturday July 05, 2025 @06:54AM (#44471796)
If the drives are the same age and large parts of the drive haven't been read from for a long time until the rebuild you might find it already failed. Anecdotally around 12 years ago the chances of a second disk failing during a raid 5 rebuild (in our setup) was probably more like 10-20%
Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by Dylan16807 on Saturday July 05, 2025 @07:17AM (#44471914)
> and large parts of the drive haven't been read from for a long time

Hence the first sentence of my three sentence post.

Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by dwedge on Saturday July 05, 2025 @09:15AM (#44472596)
If I wanted to deal with snark I'd reply to people on Reddit.
Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by Dylan16807 on Saturday July 05, 2025 @03:58PM (#44475109)
My goal isn't to be rude, but when you skip over a critical part of what I'm saying it causes a communication issue. Are you correcting my numbers, or intentionally giving numbers for a completely different scenario, or something in between? Is it none of those and you weren't taking my comment seriously enough to read 50 words? The way you replied made it hard to tell.
Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by j45 on Friday July 04, 2025 @11:27PM (#44469909)
I agreed with this generally until learning the long way why RAID 5 minimum is the only way to have some peace of mind and always a nas with at least 1-2 extra bays than you need.

Storage is easier as an appliance that just runs.

Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by UltraSane on Friday July 04, 2025 @06:43PM (#44468532)
Storing backups and movies on NVMe ssds is just a waste of money.
Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by sandreas on Saturday July 05, 2025 @01:54AM (#44470375)
Absolutely. I don't store movies at all but if I would, I would add a USB-based solution that could be turned off via shelly plug / tasmota remotely.
Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by UltraSane on Sunday July 06, 2025 @07:52PM (#44485264)
Why would you need to disconnect it? Are you worried about ransomware?
Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by sandreas on Friday July 18, 2025 @04:33PM (#44609514)
Power consumption
Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by fnord77 on Monday July 07, 2025 @10:23PM (#44496414)
not if you value silence and compactness
Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by UltraSane on Wednesday July 09, 2025 @11:24AM (#44511203)
A disk NAS isn't very large or loud.
Re:Mini NASes marry NVMe to Intel's efficient chip by fnord77 on Friday July 11, 2025 @06:10PM (#44537268)
For my purposes, a disk NAS is both too large and too noisy.

The only place I can put a NAS is my living room. I'm not putting a fucking 4-bay synology on my entertainment shelf. And if I can hear it, it is too loud.

these mini-NAS boxes are about the size of a single 3.5 HDD