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Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by quietbritishjim on Saturday June 28, 2025 @06:38PM (#44408769)
The information is unverified because Israel does not allow journalists into Gaza.
Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by YZF on Saturday June 28, 2025 @06:54PM (#44408833)
Israel has allowed journalists into Gaza many times during the war. They need to accompany the IDF and the IDF has the right to censor information that can endanger their soldiers but does not control the narrative or the fact reporting.

Hamas has a history of threatening and intimidating journalists in Gaza.

https://cpj.org/2025/05/gaza-journalists-speak-out-about-ham...

Gaza is also an active war zone. It is dubious that western media could just walk into Gaza and report freely even if the IDF allowed that. In theory media could have crossed into Gaza from Egypt before Israel occupied the Philadelphi corridor and the border crossing but none did. So Egypt (and/or the Gazan authorities) e.g. also did not allow journalists into Gaza.

So this statement is sort of true but there's more to be considered here.

Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by asadm on Saturday June 28, 2025 @07:11PM (#44408930)
IDF has been actively killing journalists too. So many that this is deadliest war for journalist to report on in recorded history.
Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by mahirsaid on Saturday June 28, 2025 @10:20PM (#44409859)
This is not a war. War is Ukraine vs Russia.
Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by birn559 on Sunday June 29, 2025 @08:53AM (#44412740)
Could you provide sources? I would assume 'journalists' are only actively killed if they grab a weapon or conduct similar actions.

My understanding of "actively killed" is thy have been the explicit target of an attack and not casualties in general.

Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by bigyabai on Sunday June 29, 2025 @11:48AM (#44414019)
News outlets tell Israeli officers where their journalists intend to be, and they wear jackets that identify them as members of the press. Preventing the journalists from dying is really a matter of communicating to each other, and using visual identification before engaging in direct fire. Both the officers and enlisted have the opportunity to cancel an illegitimate fire mission. Something doctrinal is responsible for this behavior.

Given the unconscionable number of journalists who died at the IDF's hands, it seems like Israel is indeed using the transparency info from journalists to locate and target them with airstrikes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_...

Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by bigyabai on Saturday June 28, 2025 @07:31PM (#44409057)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_...

Israel is the side with Datalink, in case this chart doesn't make it clear.

Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by tehjoker on Saturday June 28, 2025 @07:40PM (#44409108)
So if a journalist decides to wander away from the potemkin village they get denied access. The journalists going on these ridealongs are not doing journalism. This tactic, which america pioneered in response to vietnam war coverage, is designed to only allow journalists who will tell the right kind of narrative.
Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by bigyabai on Sunday June 29, 2025 @03:45AM (#44411070)
It's well-documented what they do to anyone who tries documenting the aftermath: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israeli-troops-...
Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by YZF on Sunday June 29, 2025 @06:46PM (#44417297)
This person, a Palestinian, was not attacked for documenting something he wasn't supposed to. That's not the claim in the article. He is said to have documented the "the aftermath of Hamas’s massacre on the Gaza-border communities.” but that doesn't seem to be directly relevant.

The context is a protest: "Haruf says he was attacked without cause after leaving a prayer protest broken up by Israeli security forces in the Wadi Joz neighborhood." not the journalistic activities.

I'm not justifying this FWIW, just that it doesn't prove what you're trying to prove. If anything the publication of this article in Israel shows Israel has freedom of press.

also: "The Border Police later announced that it had suspended the two officers involved in the incident and that the Department of Internal Police Investigations has opened a probe into the matter."

There is also followup (again in Israeli press): https://www.timesofisrael.com/border-police-said-to-reinstat...

"The Union of Journalists in Israel condemned the incident and said it was “shocked by the violent attack” on Haruf.

The union said the incident was “the 37th attack on Arab journalists since the beginning of the war” on October 7, when Hamas-led terrorists launched their murderous assault on southern Israel, killing 1,200 people, mostly civilians, and taking some 240 hostages of all ages.

The union, in a December 15 statement, said “most of the attacks [were] carried out by the security forces. This is a reality that dramatically harms freedom of the press and the ability of journalists to perform their duties.”"

Is this perfect? no. Is Israeli press generally free, attacks/criticizes the government, brings to light bad things that happen, and follow up on them? yes.

Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by vFunct on Saturday June 28, 2025 @10:25PM (#44409879)
Correct. Israel does not allow a free press.

And this is how we know Israel does not believe in democracy and is not a democracy itself, since a free press is a requirement of democracy.

Democracy isn't just having elections. Saddam Hussein's Iraq and Russia has elections, too.

Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by YZF on Saturday June 28, 2025 @11:56PM (#44410245)
The article we're talking about here is published in Israeli media.
Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by kylebenzle on Sunday June 29, 2025 @09:50AM (#44413154)
Unless what they're really doing is a thousand times worse and this is the propagandized version..
Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by FridayoLeary on Saturday June 28, 2025 @06:53PM (#44408830)
I've seen this come up a lot. It's not a terrible point but the implications are exaggerated. Hamas controls the journalism in Gaza. Just because Israel isn't open enough doesn't automatically make the hamas narrative true.
Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by neepi on Sunday June 29, 2025 @03:59AM (#44411139)
That is both true and untrue at the same time based on how you dress it, what context you portray it in and who you cite.

This demonstrates my point perfectly.

Please rather than take this point as an affront to your position and go and research both positions and compare. Then at least you can be confident in your own position and talk into it with authority.

Everything is very nuanced.

Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by woooooo on Sunday June 29, 2025 @08:38AM (#44412622)
History is nuanced.

Shooting starving people should be one of those moments of clarity that cuts through the narrative.

Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by atonse on Sunday June 29, 2025 @09:28AM (#44412979)
I think that is what the parent is alluding to, when it comes to waiting for more facts.

One of those facts might be intent or misheard orders. It might just be that this actually happened (as a war crime) but it is probably too early to tell.

Regardless of what happened, it helps to wait until more info comes out.

Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by woooooo on Sunday June 29, 2025 @09:56AM (#44413193)
It's been every day for weeks, there is video.
Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by amendegree on Wednesday July 02, 2025 @12:14PM (#44445506)
There literally isn’t any video of GHF doing it.
Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by neepi on Sunday June 29, 2025 @09:51AM (#44413164)
Exactly that.
Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by asacrowflies on Monday June 30, 2025 @12:06PM (#44424909)
How long should we wait? Seems it's always just wait... Until it blows over and can be swept under the rug...again...
Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by kylebenzle on Sunday June 29, 2025 @09:47AM (#44413135)
This is my favorite response from you guys!

"Look, children may be dying and maybe we're killing them but we need to verify and we need more time. Because first of all what were they even doing there? Oh and also this is our Land anyways and there were no deaths nobody died there aren't even any children in gaza!"

Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by neepi on Sunday June 29, 2025 @09:59AM (#44413224)
This is a fine example of the irrational discourse that does damage to the whole situation.

Every case needs to be investigated thoroughly and punished accordingly.

Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by bigyabai on Sunday June 29, 2025 @11:43AM (#44413989)
> Every case needs to be investigated thoroughly and punished accordingly.

Which is the exact reason you should be concerned. Israel has zero accountability for their actions, many of which are documented war crimes.

Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by neepi on Sunday June 29, 2025 @02:26PM (#44415203)
Did I say I wasn’t concerned?
Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by boston_clone on Sunday June 29, 2025 @04:13PM (#44416030)
at the point, advocating for neutrality in the face of overwhelming evidence of war crimes day after day after day is a pretty clear indication of not being concerned.
Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by arunabha on Sunday June 29, 2025 @02:54PM (#44415402)
> Every case needs to be investigated thoroughly and punished accordingly.

And who exactly do you propose should do that? The Israeli govt?

Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by neepi on Sunday June 29, 2025 @04:03PM (#44415949)
Hell no. Neither party in a conflict is in a position to do such an investigation. Who do you think?

ICC would be nice but the geopolitical gorilla in the room knocked them down.

Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by bigyabai on Sunday June 29, 2025 @06:02PM (#44416900)
The United States isn't preventing the Israeli state from cooperating with the ICC, Israel is.
Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by asacrowflies on Monday June 30, 2025 @12:08PM (#44424928)
So the civilians being murdered need to be investigated and punished? Hmm hot take.
Re:IDF Soldiers Confess: Ordered to Shoot Unarmed Gazans at ... by itchyouch on Sunday June 29, 2025 @12:11PM (#44414190)
The "nuanced" rhetoric to add doubt that things may not seem like what they are, is tiresome at this point. neepi's comments seem reasonable, innocent until proven guilty, but it's simply a strategy to exhaust onlookers with bureaucratic formalities of investigation and prosecution under the masquerade of reasonable justice.

It's a cop out and putting one's head in the sand to the real atrocities of zionistic ambitions of usurping Palestinian land.

In America, if someone trespasses into one's home and the home owner kills the trespasser, the vast majority of the time, the owner is justified and there are numerous court cases we can point to. Recently, it has become clear to me that Palestinians are simply trying to defend their own property/land/humanity.

Israel's trespasses are finally seeing the light in the latest set of conflicts and folks reading this comment that are unsure should spend 30 minutes looking up the videos of the conflict.

Israel blocking aid, murdering medical personnel with impunity, the before/after of Gaza, the list of crimes perpetuated by the government is undeniable at this point.