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Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by rbanffy on Saturday June 14, 2025 @02:30PM (#44277893)
I would love to find a fundamental flaw in this reasoning, but I can't. It was, I guess, naïve to not expect exponential technological progress not to reflect in the political structures. The world is changing, and changing very quickly.

The article doesn't get much into what can be the next step - fully autonomous drones that travel by night, charge by day, and find a target by themselves. A bit like landmines, with a shorter half-life, but highly mobile and intelligent enough.

Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by snickerbockers on Saturday June 14, 2025 @02:57PM (#44278077)
He failed to consider that small actors won't have a monopoly on drones. The best counter is for the defending authority to have even more drones on constant patrol looking out for any drones that don't satisfy whatever the criteria is for a "good drone". This brings its own host of problems because the people have to become accustomed to constantly being surveilled by a swarm of government drones with the ability to assassinate anybody at any moment and nobody to hold criminally accountable, but my point is that this technology is available to the defenders too.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by ffsm8 on Saturday June 14, 2025 @03:44PM (#44278360)
I am not sure if you realize how hopelessly impossible that is.

You're aware that the (to my knowledge, which is entirely based on documentaries) primary way drugs are shipped to the USA are drones nowadays? Some via air, some underwater etc

There is just to much area and drones are tiny. It's infeasible to track them without spending insane amounts of money (and creating a total surveillance state as a by-product)

Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by snickerbockers on Saturday June 14, 2025 @04:02PM (#44278468)
>I am not sure if you realize how hopelessly impossible that is.

It's not impossible if it's predominantly automated. You have swarms of "police drones" on patrol actively scanning for other drones and when they see one that they don't like (some sort of signed certificate that authenticates the owner and their license) they shoot it down. It works as long as the "police drones" are plentiful and well dispersed to the point of maintaining dominance.

>and creating a total surveillance state as a by-product

that's what i meant when i said this brings its own host of problems. My point's not that our way of life will continue unabated my point is that this particular force multiplier goes both ways, and the defense will be a sort of "drone police corps". The biggest problems will be whatever happens outside of the "margin of error" (ie accidentally shooting down the wrong drones, civilians caught in crossfire, people hurt by falling debris) and the general end of any notion of privacy (not that America isn't already going in that direction anyways).

Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by trod1234 on Saturday June 14, 2025 @04:31PM (#44278633)
This concept's conclusion is fully sketched out in Neal Stephenson's Diamond Age.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by snickerbockers on Saturday June 14, 2025 @04:53PM (#44278763)
I guess I'll have to check that one out. I read Snow Crash a decade ago and it's one of my favorite books ever written but I never read anything else he wrote because (from what i understand looking at reviews and plot synopses) it's not all bizarre cyberpunk "not-quite-parody but also not-entirely-serious" like Snow Crash.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by LargoLasskhyfv on Saturday June 14, 2025 @05:26PM (#44278948)
Do so! It's great.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by r721 on Sunday June 15, 2025 @05:57AM (#44281469)
This subthread also reminded me of Sheckley's Watchbird story (written in 1953!)
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by trod1234 on Saturday June 14, 2025 @04:25PM (#44278591)
Agreed. This is the most likely outcome of this, and it won't be regular drones it will be a race to toner wars from Neal Stephenson's "A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer."

Floating clouds of molecular drones ever-present designed to destroy other unauthorized drones, and that technology will enable the long walk on a short pier for those that violate phyle rules. Cookie cutters.

Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by rightbyte on Saturday June 14, 2025 @04:40PM (#44278683)
In theory I guess the anti-drone drones could be armed with non-lethal things like nets or balls or whatever.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by HDThoreaun on Sunday June 15, 2025 @11:17AM (#44282729)
This does not seem realistic. The number of drones you’d need to pull this off has got to be in the trillions
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by Teever on Sunday June 15, 2025 @04:05PM (#44284638)
It isn't about whether or not they'll have a monopoly on drones, it's about the power balance shifting to be not so one sided on defense.

For decades we've lived in a society where defending against these kinds of violent acts was far easier than committing them. That's changing, and it only has to change a little bit to have radical effects on society.

Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by walrus01 on Saturday June 14, 2025 @02:32PM (#44277904)
How would they charge? The watt hours needed to fly a medium sized VTOL uav of any type for any reasonable amount of time can't be collected by the size of pv panel that can be reasonably carried by the same craft. Not unless it sits still for a week in a sunny spot.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by ben_w on Saturday June 14, 2025 @03:15PM (#44278183)
> The watt hours needed to fly a medium sized VTOL uav of any type for any reasonable amount of time can't be collected by the size of pv panel that can be reasonably carried by the same craft.

Drones aren't limited to quadcopters.

> Not unless it sits still for a week in a sunny spot.

So do that?

Humans are persistance predators, or so I'm told. We didn't domesticate horses by running faster than them, but by because they had to rest, and when they stopped we'd catch up, and then they'd run again, a cycle that repeated until they couldn't run any more.

But these days, we humans are no longer nomadic: we live in predictable homes, and most of us who work do so at predictable locations.

A drone that takes a year to get to one of us? We could outrace it, or shoot it down… but only if we know it's there.

Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by rbanffy on Saturday June 14, 2025 @04:41PM (#44278686)
> A drone that takes a year to get to one of us? We could outrace it, or shoot it down… but only if we know it's there.

As someone in the IRA once told Margaret Thatcher, "We only need to be lucky once. You need to be lucky every time".

Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by eszed on Saturday June 14, 2025 @02:39PM (#44277952)
> sits still for a week

Why would that be an issue? Planners have to think further ahead, but the threat is only marginally decreased.

Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by ldom22 on Saturday June 14, 2025 @02:51PM (#44278025)
So called “vampire drones” have the capacity to identify electrical transmission lines and leech off them
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by rcruzeiro on Saturday June 14, 2025 @03:54PM (#44278416)
This is still speculative tech, no?
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by rbanffy on Saturday June 14, 2025 @04:42PM (#44278691)
I bet it won't by next month or so.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by BriggyDwiggs42 on Sunday June 15, 2025 @01:41PM (#44283719)
I remember seeing a demo. It doesn’t honestly seem very hard.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by rcruzeiro on Sunday June 15, 2025 @04:25PM (#44284740)
I don’t think induction alone would cut it. Having the drone make contact and step down hundreds of kilovolts seem pretty hard to me. Plus the EM interference on the drones systems would be a challenge under the best circumstances.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by BurningFrog on Saturday June 14, 2025 @02:44PM (#44277982)
You can have other drones swap in fully charged batteries when needed.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by strtok on Saturday June 14, 2025 @02:37PM (#44277929)
Find an outdoor wall socket?
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by hackernewds on Saturday June 14, 2025 @02:34PM (#44277915)
they don't need to be constantly flying. as long as work is not done, there isn't much energy being burned. and most of the energy burned is not with the rotors
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by walrus01 on Saturday June 14, 2025 @02:36PM (#44277925)
If you mean something that is put in place with a full charge and just uses PV to trickle charge keep itself awake and alive, sure. I was thinking a scenario where something is dropped off, flies 10-15 minutes and lands somewhere to await a target. It would need many days to charge before it could fly again for ten minutes.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by namrog84 on Saturday June 14, 2025 @02:38PM (#44277944)
What about those drones that charge via power lines?
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by jeremyjacob on Saturday June 14, 2025 @02:39PM (#44277953)
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by snickerdoodle12 on Saturday June 14, 2025 @02:54PM (#44278047)
Drop a charging pad on a roof somewhere
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by mcphage on Saturday June 14, 2025 @02:35PM (#44277919)
> Not unless it sits still for a week in a sunny spot.

Isn’t that the answer to your question, then?

Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by walrus01 on Saturday June 14, 2025 @02:37PM (#44277932)
Kind of, but it seems such things would be obvious and exposed to being easily located if just sitting around idle in sunlight collecting charge. Not exactly like a landmine.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by snickerdoodle12 on Saturday June 14, 2025 @02:54PM (#44278056)
A drone sitting on a roof where no one ever goes isn't exactly obvious
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by dotancohen on Saturday June 14, 2025 @03:07PM (#44278138)
Will militaries or civilian operators soon operate fleets of drones that scan rooftops and other exposed sunny locations for charging drones?
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by ben_w on Saturday June 14, 2025 @03:23PM (#44278243)
Even if they do, can still be camouflaged as e.g. a bunch of leaves, or other detritus.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by dotancohen on Saturday June 14, 2025 @04:22PM (#44278567)
Sounds like an arms race to me.

In any case, the solar cells should still be visible.

Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by spwa4 on Saturday June 14, 2025 @04:56PM (#44278778)
(solar cells can be non-reflective black, the reflectivity is just to double-dip the suns rays)
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by dotancohen on Monday June 16, 2025 @01:43AM (#44286894)
I had no idea, thank you!

Such cells would be half as efficient I suppose, so would need to be twice as large and probably at least twice as heavy. I wonder how that might affect design and payload constraints as it scales.

Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by snickerdoodle12 on Monday June 16, 2025 @02:09PM (#44291910)
Or you just wait twice as long, which seems fine for sleeper drones parked on a rooftop waiting for the target to come in range.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by mcphage on Sunday June 15, 2025 @08:21AM (#44281940)
How many drones would it take to do that? We’re talking potentially thousands of square miles. The resources required to scan all those areas—and scan them often enough to catch all the drones slowly working their way through—would be monumental.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by dotancohen on Monday June 16, 2025 @01:46AM (#44286904)
It would be not unlike scanning all US aircraft passengers to the extent that it is done. At the time, that looked quite infeasible and expensive as well. You would be surprised at how much resources can be diverted to security firms under guise of national security.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by mcphage on Monday June 16, 2025 @11:36AM (#44290601)
My assumption is that it would be several orders of magnitude more than that, but, maybe we’ll find out.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by beefnugs on Saturday June 14, 2025 @03:04PM (#44278126)
power lines are AC, same tech as wireless phone charging, you just need to coil wires properly
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by ben_w on Saturday June 14, 2025 @03:26PM (#44278269)
Not usefully like wireless charging, but also there are easier ways such as touching the exposed wire.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by rbanffy on Saturday June 14, 2025 @04:44PM (#44278701)
Tram lines could be a target.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by idiotsecant on Saturday June 14, 2025 @02:52PM (#44278034)
Charging isn't needed or even very helpful. It's a million times easier, cheaper, and more efficient to just drop a few cheap drones in areas your target might go, then have someone monitoring remotely activate them at the appropriate time.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by NewJazz on Saturday June 14, 2025 @02:54PM (#44278052)
Dropping the drones is an opportunity for surveillance to catch you via license plate, gait, et cetera.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by ben_w on Saturday June 14, 2025 @03:34PM (#44278312)
The range of even an inefficient quadcopter drone being what it is, if your target is somewhere in San Diego then "in the area" of your target includes bits of Mexico.

(For competently designed fixed-wing drones, Canada is "in the area" of San Diego).

Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by justsomehnguy on Saturday June 14, 2025 @03:36PM (#44278325)
Drone dropping drone doesn't have a license plate nor gait.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by NewJazz on Sunday June 15, 2025 @07:18PM (#44285584)
Yeah guess you could have a self driving semi-truck (full of quadrocopters) programmed to flip its plate and truck on.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by idiotsecant on Saturday June 14, 2025 @06:36PM (#44279288)
Ok, I guess I will drop it in some unimportant ditch 20 miles away at 1am on a nondescript stolen bicycle. That cost me about 1% of the cost of this hypothetical recharging hunter-killer terminator.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by madaxe_again on Saturday June 14, 2025 @02:40PM (#44277957)
The reasoning is sound, but incomplete.

The reality is that a majority of people are simply too lazy to do this stuff. We are talking about populations that call a guy to come change a lightbulb - rigging a drone with explosives, figuring out control at a distance - this is beyond the scope of capability for the majority of malcontents. Most would-be pipe bombers end up nabbed at the point where they try to purchase a charge for their devices. Same deal here. Yes, there’s scope for a small number of bad actors to wreak havoc, but the thing about small numbers is that they are readily dealt with through existing law enforcement frameworks.

On a state level, war is war, and arms races are never static. You send flotillas of drones? I manufacture flotillas of counter-drone drones.

Yes, there is an asymmetry currently, but just as air supremacy was once seen as “well, this makes war practically impossible”, and became just another battleground, the same will happen here.

Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by glitchc on Saturday June 14, 2025 @02:42PM (#44277964)
It only takes a few dedicated true believers to fundamentally change how society works. 9/11 only happened once.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by rbanffy on Saturday June 14, 2025 @04:46PM (#44278715)
I often have to point out they won. They wanted to change the US, and the country is, today, almost unrecognizable. Patriot Act, FISA courts, and now illegal deportations and an alliance with Russia at the top level.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by madaxe_again on Saturday June 14, 2025 @05:07PM (#44278840)
The US wanted to change. PNAC spelled out almost all of what happened after 9/11, before 9/11, and it was a gift to the security industrial complex hawks. They literally said in their report that a Pearl Harbor type event would likely be necessary:

“Further, the process of transformation… is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event—like a new Pearl Harbor.”

Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by FridayoLeary on Saturday June 14, 2025 @03:22PM (#44278232)
You put that quite bluntly but i agree with you. Just look at all the dumb mistakes would be terrorists make. If drone warfare was so easy then hamas - a (once) decently competent militant organisation would be using it as a great equaliser against israeli troops. The truth is that besides for on october 7 when they were used extremely effectively they have been absent. Israeli troops on the other hand are all using them for surveillance. It looks like only states have the abilities to maintain drone tactics.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by BriggyDwiggs42 on Sunday June 15, 2025 @01:47PM (#44283766)
Domestically this seems to be the wisdom, but not in occupied countries and/or countries where you killed a lot of peoples’ family members. These will 100% be a good tactic for various guerrilla fighters.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by spwa4 on Saturday June 14, 2025 @05:07PM (#44278839)
Well, how about this: there is a lot of knowledge that if it were publicly available in a useful form, could do incredible amounts of damage. From viral DNA/RNA sequences to the exact procedure to get a fission cascade. The exact chemical formula to a lot of different nasty concoctions, or in some cases just the fact that particular things even exist (e.g. you don't need radioactive material to create radiation poisoning ... even mass radiation poisoning)

Advanced knowledge has only once been used in a terror attack, and not very effectively.

These types of drone would need to collect a lot of not-so-easy-to-get knowledge. You'd need weapons, mechanical design, electronic fuses ... but mostly an AI good enough to make decisions on their own. And frankly, with good AI you could do a lot more damage than this without ever killing anyone.

Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by Gigachad on Saturday June 14, 2025 @07:57PM (#44279646)
Feel like there is something comforting that the state of things hasn’t been bigger bombs, more destruction, and more harm, but instead became highly targeted attacks that massively cripple a countries military infrastructure with almost no harm to anyone else.
Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by consumer451 on Saturday June 14, 2025 @08:12PM (#44279693)
Technology advancing faster than society has always seemed like "the great filter" to me, at least for us on Earth.

The recent advancements in the normalization of hate and suffering, while tech advances, makes me feel like I am suffering from Cassandra Syndrome, aka, crazy pills.

Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by ddq on Saturday June 14, 2025 @09:27PM (#44279964)
Yes, a lot of us feel the same way. It's clear to me the next step is for us to start coming together, grouping up and sharing our ideas. I read on the internet every single day people expressing these feelings and for some reason we remain impotent and helpless when we could be uniting and inventing. Where is the will? I can only hope it's simply happening outside the scope of my vision. But it really needs to be happening faster.

We are coming face to face with the concept of exponential growth itself. Humanity versus the feedback loop. And it will take coordinated genius to best such a naturally powerful foe.

Re:Drones will realize the promise of suicide terrorism by consumer451 on Saturday June 14, 2025 @11:10PM (#44280261)
> Where is the will?

The memory of what happens when hate takes control died, literally. The people who survived WWII are mostly gone. Now, without their knowledge, without their shame, we are swinging back to the other side.

My concern is that the swing happens to go the wrong way, at the same time that we happen to have an incredibly asymmetric ability to destroy each other.

We might be 1 or 5 swings away from that being a truly end-of-times situation. At this point, that seems to me like it would be when a pissed off kid, whose parents were killed as "collateral damage," could create a novel pathogen with only a $10k lab.

If tech and hate keeps advancing at the current rate, what is that, 100 years max? We really need to get our shit together.