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Re:Android 16 Is Here by echelon on Tuesday June 10, 2025 @03:24PM (#44240436)
I wish we had a dozen phone companies instead of just two.

Please write your legislators and demand antitrust action against Apple and Google for the following:

- Lack of One-Tap Web Installs (without scare walls or buried settings menus). This is the biggest stranglehold they have. Web installs can be done safely and securely via app signing, permissions, and signature blacklists.

- First-party defaults for all the platform pieces: Messaging, Payments, Photos, Music, Media, Navigation, etc. Every single one of these lets Apple and Google squeeze another industry and forces us into a pit of no-innovation.

- Default search, in the case of Google, which ropes you into their search / ads funnel. They've also bought it out on Apple's end.

- Default browser tech, in the case of Apple. It prevents innovation on app runtimes and deployment and forces you to develop using Apple technologies.

Winning the mobile rights battle will not only liberate us from the "promo cycle" plague, it'll stop the tax on innovation and introduce healthy competition.

If American legislators and the DOJ / FTC won't act, then every other country should. If enough countries put pressure on Apple and Google, we'll start to see competition reemerge. Right now it's impossible to develop a new smartphone entrant. Even Meta and Microsoft with their nearly-unlimited capital couldn't fight off Apple and Google.

YCombinator would probably be happy if smartphones became open platforms. They'd see healthier margins for startups and less direct platform competition. a16z is pushing for this. Just because Apple and Google were there first twenty years ago shouldn't give them an eternity to rule the entire category.

Re:Android 16 Is Here by legitster on Tuesday June 10, 2025 @04:01PM (#44240829)
As someone who owned a Symbian, a Palm OS, and a Windows phone - I kind of refuse to listen to this argument anymore. I voted with my wallet and all I have to show for it were years of mockery from my peers and a drawerful of bricked devices.
Re:Android 16 Is Here by rjsw on Tuesday June 10, 2025 @04:06PM (#44240888)
You can buy phones now that are not from Apple or Google, I have a Nokia KaiOS one.
Re:Android 16 Is Here by rawling on Tuesday June 10, 2025 @03:41PM (#44240622)
> - First-party defaults for all the platform pieces: Messaging, Payments, Photos, Music, Media, Navigation, etc. Every single one of these lets Apple and Google squeeze another industry and forces us into a pit of no-innovation.

Don't/can't Android manufacturers provide alternative defaults here?

Re:Android 16 Is Here by jsight on Tuesday June 10, 2025 @03:44PM (#44240658)
Yes, and most people hate it when they do that.
Re:Android 16 Is Here by echelon on Tuesday June 10, 2025 @03:47PM (#44240694)
Probably the biggest case for a full-on Google breakup. Android being split from the platform components.

A new company probably still couldn't develop platform pieces if that chink in the armor was made available by the DOJ. But if Google were split along those lines into two or more companies, it would provide nice and healthy gradients on both the hardware/OS and the platform/software sides of the market.

We really do need a Google breakup.

Re:Android 16 Is Here by warkdarrior on Tuesday June 10, 2025 @04:17PM (#44241015)
> Probably the biggest case for a full-on Google breakup. Android being split from the platform components.

Isn't core Android open source? As long as you do not need Google apps and Google services, you can use Android OSS right now without Google's platform components.

Re:Android 16 Is Here by isaacaggrey on Tuesday June 10, 2025 @03:58PM (#44240801)
I agree with your parent post but why would a breakup not equally apply to Apple?
Re:Android 16 Is Here by echelon on Tuesday June 10, 2025 @04:02PM (#44240851)
It should! But the parent was referring to Android manufacturers.
Re:Android 16 Is Here by diffeomorphism on Tuesday June 10, 2025 @05:18PM (#44241561)
Wasn't that what all the 2015 antitrust stuff was about?

Manufacturers were contractually forbidden from doing that.

Re:Android 16 Is Here by rawling on Tuesday June 10, 2025 @06:04PM (#44241971)
Thanks, that helped me find this which does sound like it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust_cases_against_Google...

Re:Android 16 Is Here by izacus on Tuesday June 10, 2025 @06:10PM (#44242032)
Samsung literally provides their own alternative for all of these.
Re:Android 16 Is Here by diffeomorphism on Wednesday June 11, 2025 @04:48AM (#44245536)
No, they provide them in addition but not as replacements/defaults. That is what the discussion was about.
Re:Android 16 Is Here by lupire on Tuesday June 10, 2025 @04:14PM (#44240988)
What you want is a government sponsored phone OS. We had competition but software has economy of scale. No one wants to pay the cost of developing a phone OS used by a small fraction of users. Windows and Palm proved that.

And Samsung does sell phones with customized UI and apps.

Re:Android 16 Is Here by kabdib on Tuesday June 10, 2025 @03:27PM (#44240461)
bring back the Windows phone! (srsly, they were pretty nice to develop for)
Re:Android 16 Is Here by crazygringo on Tuesday June 10, 2025 @05:18PM (#44241563)
> I wish we had a dozen phone companies instead of just two.

Counterpoint: the resources currently dedicated to Apple and Android would then be spread across a dozen operating systems, assuming constant consumer spending.

Maybe you think stasis is a good thing, but I (mostly) appreciate the progress iOS and Android have made over the past nearly two decades. I wouldn't want to currently be stuck at iOS 3 or 4 as opposed to iOS 18.

Assuming you actually mean a dozen phone operating systems. Because we already do have lots of phone companies, but they mostly all use Android.

Re:Android 16 Is Here by charcircuit on Tuesday June 10, 2025 @07:36PM (#44242685)
There are more than a dozen phone companies: Google, Samsung, Motorola, Apple, HTC, Xiaomi, Huawei, LG, etc.
Re:Android 16 Is Here by delfinom on Tuesday June 10, 2025 @09:29PM (#44243349)
HTC is dead. LG has exited the phone market.

Motorola is barely hanging out.

Turns out people tend to gravitate to a few choices....

Xioami/Huawei are in essence banned from the US.

Re:Android 16 Is Here by prmoustache on Wednesday June 11, 2025 @01:24AM (#44244454)
That is probably a US only viewpoint. Everywhere else in the world apart from Samsung, Xiaomi is super big as well as brands such as Oppo, Realme, Honor, Pocophone, TCL, Oneplus, Huawei, Motorola and many others I just can't remember from the top of my head.

i have the feeling that for anything in the US, everything has to end up in monopolies or bipartisan approach. People just seem to buy what their neighbors/coworkers/siblings buy without trying to do a bit of research. Some kind of deep vulnerability to virality. My mate has an iphone, I need an iphone, my neighbor beagged about their Thermomix, I need a Thermomix too immediately.

Re:Android 16 Is Here by benchly on Wednesday June 11, 2025 @04:42AM (#44245493)
To be fair, in the US we can still walk into a Best Buy* and purchase a Motorola (my choice), Nokia, or OnePlus. In that environment, however, you will also notice that Samsung and Apple are the dominant device manufacturers, with consumers looking at Google phones as the stable alternative (for some reason).

There's also Amazon, which is often cheaper, but I am a bit old school in the regard that I like to physically use the device before I purchase it.

Either way, the perceived restrictions are more of a self-imposed thing rooted in our consumer conditioning here, which is this weird blend of "customer choice" and "all choices are basically the same" that gets muddy very, very quickly. Most people I talk to, especially the non-technical ones, do not realize that my $150US Moto is serving me just as well as an $600US Samsung would, with my needs being all the common types of communications, reliable 5G, a decent camera and run specific apps I use to control some cloud infrastructure while on the go. It's difficult to feel sympathy when I hear people complain about paying Apple $1000US just to look at TikTok or use Discord. We are guided on what to buy via the marketing machine instead of examining our use-cases and researching a suitable product before purchasing.

It's all silly bullshit, really.