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Re:Databricks and Neon by flanked-evergl on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @06:45AM (#43982947)
Maybe unrelated but Databricks is the most annoying garbage I have ever had to use. It fascinates me how anyone uses it by choice.
Re:Databricks and Neon by robertkoss on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @07:17AM (#43983129)
I used to be a big fan of the platform because back in 2020 / 2021 it really was the only reasonable choice compared to AWS / Azure / Snowflake for building data platforms.

Today it suffers from feature creep and too many pivots & acquisitions. That they are insanely bad at naming features doesn't help at all.

Re:Databricks and Neon by kristjansson on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @11:35AM (#43985811)
I’d settle for only one bad name per feature from them. Alas, they don’t feel so limited
Re:Databricks and Neon by winwang on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @03:45PM (#43988454)
I'm building another Spark-based choice now with ParaQuery (GPU-accelerated Spark): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43964505
Re:Databricks and Neon by swalsh on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @07:18AM (#43983133)
Really hard disagree. Coming from hadoop, databricks is utopia. It's stable, fast, scales really well if you have massive datasets.

The biggest gripe in have is how crazy expensive it is.

Re:Databricks and Neon by willvarfar on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @07:54AM (#43983395)
Spark was a really big step up from hadoop.

But these days just use trino or whatever. There are lots of new ways to work on data that are all bigger steps up - ergonomically, performance and price - over spark as spark was over hadoop.

Re:Databricks and Neon by disgruntledphd2 on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @09:14AM (#43984155)
The nice thing about spark is the scala/python/R APIs. That helps to avoid lots of the irritating things about SQL (the same transformation applied to multiple columns is a big one).
Re:Databricks and Neon by lelandbatey on Thursday May 15, 2025 @01:08AM (#43992020)
I really can't speak highly enough of Trino (though I used it as AWS Athena, and this was back when Trino was called Presto). It's impressive how well it took "ever growing pile of CSV/JSON/Excel/Parquet/whatever" and let you query it via SQL as-is without transforming it and putting it into some other system.

What an impressive feat of engineering.

Re:Databricks and Neon by DebtDeflation on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @10:13AM (#43984784)
Hadoop was fundamentally a batch processing system for large data files that was never intended for the sort of online reporting and analytics workloads for which the DW concept addressed. No amount of Pig and Hive and HBase and subsequent tools layered on top of it could ever change that basic fact.
Re:Databricks and Neon by winwang on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @03:46PM (#43988463)
If cost (or perf) is the issue, we're building a super-efficient, GPU-accelerated, easy-to-use Spark: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43964505
Re:Databricks and Neon by mritchie712 on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @07:25AM (#43983185)
Databricks started in 2013 when Spark sucked (it still does) and they aimed to make it better / faster (which they do).

The product is still centered Spark, but most companies don't want or need Spark and a combination of Iceberg and DuckDB will work for 95% of companies. It's cheaper, just as fast or faster and way easier to reason about.

We're building a data platform around that premise at Definite[0]. It includes everything you need to get started with data (ETL, BI, datalake).

0 - https://www.definite.app/

Re:Databricks and Neon by isignal on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @11:38AM (#43985833)
Aren't the alternatives you mentioned - icerberg and duckdb - both storage solutions while spark is a way to express distributed compute? I'm a bit out of touch with this space, is there a newer way to express distributed compute?
Re:Databricks and Neon by Nate75Sanders on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @11:48AM (#43985954)
Flink. It has more momentum than Spark right now.
Re:Databricks and Neon by mgfist on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @01:46PM (#43987289)
"momentum" is a tricky word. Zig has more momentum than C++, but will it ever overtake the language? I'd bet not.
Re:Databricks and Neon by franktankbank on Thursday May 15, 2025 @09:37AM (#43994968)
Well its not a tricky word it just wrong. Velocity maybe. Or more probably acceleration.
Re:Databricks and Neon by briankelly on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @05:47PM (#43989545)
Flink is designed around streaming first, while Spark is built around batch first and you're likely best off selecting accordingly. Though any streaming application likely needs batch processing to some degree. Latency vs throughput.
Re:Databricks and Neon by tomjakubowski on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @01:15PM (#43986966)
DuckDB is not only a storage solution. It can directly query a variety of file formats at rest, without having to re-store anything. That's one of its selling points: you can query across archival/log data stored in S3 (or wherever) without needing to "ingest" anything or double-pay to duplicate the data you've already stored.
Re:Databricks and Neon by steve_adams_86 on Thursday May 15, 2025 @01:57AM (#43992239)
I’m just getting into DuckDB lately and finding this feature so exciting. It’s a totally new paradigm. Such a great tool for scientists, and probably many other people. I wish I took it seriously sooner.
Re:Databricks and Neon by mritchie712 on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @01:28PM (#43987115)
duckdb is primarily a query engine. It does have a storage format, but one of it's strengths is querying data where it already resides (e.g. a parquet file sitting in S3).

There are some examples[0] of enabling DuckDB to manage distributed workloads, but these are pretty experimental.

0 - https://www.definite.app/blog/smallpond

Re:Databricks and Neon by isignal on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @11:25PM (#43991535)
Thanks for the pointers!
Re:Databricks and Neon by winwang on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @03:45PM (#43988442)
Not a new way like Ray, but a new way to express Spark super-efficiently (GPU-acceleration): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43964505
Re:Databricks and Neon by robertlacok on Thursday May 15, 2025 @05:45AM (#43993375)
I think what many people are finding out is they don’t really need distributed processing. DuckDB on a single node can get you really far, and it’s much simpler.
Re:Databricks and Neon by apwell23 on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @08:14AM (#43983589)
Is hosting spark really that groundbreaking ? Also isn't spark kind of too complicated for 90% of enterprisey data-processing .

I really don't understand the valuation for this company. Why is it so high.

Re:Databricks and Neon by teetertater on Thursday May 15, 2025 @02:50AM (#43992485)
Yes, spark is too complicated for most cases;

But if you're inclined to use it, databricks' setup of spark just saves you an incredible amount of time that you'd normally waste on configuration and wiring infrastructure (storage, compute, pipelines, unified access, VPNs etc). It's expensive and opinionated, but the data engineers you need to deal with spark OOM errors constantly is greater. Also databricks' default configs give you MUCH better performance out of the box than anything DIY and you don't have to fiddle with partitions and super niche config options to get even medium workloads stable

Re:Databricks and Neon by isoprophlex on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @07:08AM (#43983073)
The market for IBM-like software and platforms (everyone else uses this! It must be good!) apparently wasn't saturated yet
Re:Databricks and Neon by DarkWiiPlayer on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @07:19AM (#43983143)
With cookies disabled I get a blank website, which is a massive red flag and an immediate nope from me.

Can't imagine someone incapable of building a website would deliver a good (digital) product.

Re:Databricks and Neon by fkyoureadthedoc on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @08:18AM (#43983623)
They did build a website though. It even looks pretty nice. The restriction you've placed on yourself just prevents you from viewing it.
Re:Databricks and Neon by fuzzy_biscuit on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @07:58AM (#43983436)
But.. but.... we MUST track you! That's the whole purpose of our site /s
Re:Databricks and Neon by MOARDONGZPLZ on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @11:12AM (#43985516)
Databricks is the Jira of dealing with data. No one wants to use it, it sucks, there are too many features to try to appease all possible users but none of them particularly good, and there are substantially better options now than there were not long ago. I would never, ever use it by choice.
Re:Databricks and Neon by winwang on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @03:51PM (#43988515)
What options do you use? I don't work for Databricks but I am building my own data infra startup, so I'd like to hear what "good" looks like!
Re:Databricks and Neon by MOARDONGZPLZ on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @04:30PM (#43988838)
Eh you don’t even need to go through all the trouble building a startup. imo Neon was interesting and filled a niche while open source solutions were really gaining maturity and adoption. Now they have, lots and lots of recommendations in this comment section, so my sense is that building a startup would be like reinventing the Neon wheel, just too late. Perhaps, depending on licensing, running OSS as a software is viable.
Re:Databricks and Neon by winwang on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @04:33PM (#43988860)
Oh, my startup isn't about Postgres, but rather a GPU-accelerated Spark: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43964505

What are some bad UX choices you generally dislike in data products?

Re:Databricks and Neon by hadlock on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @07:04PM (#43990109)
If you come up with the answers to some of these questions, I'd definitely read those blog articles on how you came to those conclusions. Keep asking interesting questions! Cheers
Re:Databricks and Neon by winwang on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @08:36PM (#43990644)
Which questions are you referring to specifically?
Re:Databricks and Neon by viccis on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @01:19PM (#43987006)
They push Serverless so hard but there are SO MANY limitations and surprise gotchas. It's driving me absolutely insane.
Re:Databricks and Neon by hacliff on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @02:36PM (#43987795)
Hey, what are the most painful limitations/gotchas you're hitting? I'm on this team and would like to hear about painpoints.
Re:Databricks and Neon by viccis on Saturday May 17, 2025 @04:03PM (#44016605)
To list off a few:

* No persist(). Not being able to cache dataframes is a nightmare when it's a workflow that involves taking a massive source of data, doing some rough filtering on it that gets it down to a tiny subset, and then doing more complex stuff with that.

* No good way to get usage info programmatically that I've found. For things like monitoring for periodic queries that get out of hand.

* Can't set Spark config. There are often ways to get around this, like when I recently had to set S3A credentials and needed a way that wasn't OS environment variables (this doesn't work for worker nodes). Eventually, through much documentation browsing and finally an exasperated hail mary question to ChatGPT that solved it (told me the things to pass into options() ) I got it working. But all the documentation and online QA resources just say to use Spark config.

* This is more of a Unity Catalog problem, but kind of applies because Serverless and UC often go very hand in hand (particularly when dealing with things that used to be stored in a cluster like credentials), but it drives me insane that I can only mount external volumes with the same block storage as my workspace provider. So I can't mount an external volume to an AWS bucket on an Azure UC. That means if I want to write stuff that can run the same regardless of what my customer is running their Databricks workspace with, I need to use less sophisticated approaches.

It's still nowhere near the pain that Databrick's attempt at copying Snowflake's VARIANT data type has caused me, but there are many times when I find myself having to work around serverless limitations. Especially when these limitations aren't really mentioned much upfront when Databricks pushes serverless aggressively.

Re:Databricks and Neon by datadrivenangel on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @01:35PM (#43987182)
And it tends to be notably more expensive! 4-5x the price for less features...
Re:Databricks and Neon by antruok on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @02:18PM (#43987611)
the new cost-optimized mode is very promising, though
Re:Databricks and Neon by sh34r on Thursday May 15, 2025 @12:07AM (#43991756)
TBH it's really quite boring. You just have to go back in time to the late 2010s. They had an excellent Spark-as-a-Service product, at a time when you'd have better luck finding a leprechaun than a reliable self-hosted Spark instance in an enterprise environment. That was simply beyond the capabilities of most enterprise IT teams at the time. The first-party offerings from the hyperscalars were relatively spartan.

Databricks' proprietary notebook format that introduced subtle incompatibilities with Jupyter was infuriating embrace-extend-extinguish style bullshit, but on-prem cluster instability causing jobs to crash on a daily basis was way more infuriating, and at that time, enterprises were more than happy to pay a premium to accelerate analytics teams.

In the 2010s, Databricks had a solid billion-dollar business. But Spark-as-a-Service by itself was never going to be a unicorn idea. AWS EMR was the giant tortoise lurking in the background, slowly but surely closing the gap. The status quo couldn't hold, and who doesn't want to be a unicorn? So, they bloated the hell out of the product, drank that off-brand growth-hacker Kool-Aid, and started spewing some of the most incoherent buzz-word salad to ever come out of the Left Coast. Just slapping data, lake, and house onto the ends of everything, like it was baby oil at a Diddy Party.

Now, here we are in 2025, deep into the terminal decline of enshittification, and they're just rotting away, waiting for One Real Asshole Called Larry Ellison to scoop them up and take them straight to Hell. The State of Florida, but for Big Data companies.

It would be a mystery to me too, why anyone would pick Databricks today for a greenfield project, but those enterprises from 5+ years ago are locked in hard now. They'll squeeze those whales and they'll shit money like a golden goose for a few more years, but their market share will steadily decrease over the next few years.

It's the cycle of life. Entropy always wins. Eventually the Grim Reaper Larry comes for us all. I wouldn't hate on them too hard. They had a pretty solid run.