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Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by bob1029 on Saturday April 19, 2025 @04:09AM (#43734978)
Storing encrypted blobs in S3 is my new strategy for bulk media storage. You'll never beat the QoS and resilience of the cloud storage product with something at home. I have completely lost patience with maintaining local hardware like this. If no one has a clue what is inside your blobs, they might as well not exist from their perspective. This feels like smuggling cargo on a federation starship, which is way cooler to me than filling up a bunch of local disks.

I don't need 100% of my bytes to be instantly available to me on my network. The most important stuff is already available. I can wait a day for arbitrary media to thaw out for use. Local caching and pre-loading of read-only blobs is an extremely obvious path for smoothing over remote storage.

Other advantages should be obvious. There are no limits to the scale of storage and unless you are a top 1% hoarder, the cost will almost certainly be more than amortized by the capex you would have otherwise spent on all that hardware.

Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by viraptor on Saturday April 19, 2025 @04:37AM (#43735093)
> If no one has a clue what is inside your blobs, they might as well not exist from their perspective.

This is not the perspective of actors working on longer timescale. For a number is agencies, preserving some encrypted data is beneficial, because it will be possible to recover in N years, whether any classic improvements, bugs found in key generators, or advances in quantum.

Very few people here will be that interesting, but... worth keeping in mind.

Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by bob1029 on Saturday April 19, 2025 @05:10AM (#43735187)
The point of encryption in this context is to defeat content fingerprinting techniques, not the focused resources of a nation state.
Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by xyzzy123 on Saturday April 19, 2025 @05:43AM (#43735335)
S3 or glacier? Glacier is cost competitive with local disk but not very practical for the sorts of things people usually need lots of local disk for (media & disk images). Interested in how you use this!

20TB which u can keep in a 2-bay cute little nas will cost you $4k USD / year on S3 infrequent access tier in APAC (where I am). So "payback time" of local hardware is just 6 months vs S3 IA. That's before you pay for any data transfers.

Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by fodkodrasz on Saturday April 19, 2025 @08:18AM (#43735924)
Did you factor in the resilience and redundancy S3 gives you and you cannot opt out from? I have my NAS, and it is cheaper than S3 if I ignore these, but having to run 2 offsite backups would make it much less compelling.
Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by xyzzy123 on Saturday April 19, 2025 @11:54PM (#43741426)
Absolutely, they are not the same thing. Yes, S3 provides much better durability. I just can't afford it.

For my use-case I'm OK with un-hedged risk and dollars staying in my pocket.

Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by ornornor on Sunday April 20, 2025 @03:57AM (#43742272)
I backup my nas to rsync.net, it’s very cost effective using borg backup.
Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by remram on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @09:17PM (#43767811)
$0.01/GB/mo, that does not seem better than Glacier, is it?
Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by ornornor on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @11:16PM (#43768333)
Except it’s not glacier speeds, there are no bandwidth costs, support is on a completely different level than aws (you can actually reach an actual knowledgeable human), and you can use anything that speaks ssh. They also have an expert price at 0.008$/gb/mo here https://www.rsync.net/products/borg.html
Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by cm2187 on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @03:06AM (#43759740)
Yes and no. I have been using NAS for a long time, and I use older drives as offline/offsite backups. So the cost is mostly amortized already. Those machines are off except once a week (local)/ once a month (offsite), to do an incremental backup. So this is a good use of some older drives.
Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by Dylan16807 on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @03:57AM (#43760003)
They probably factored RAID1 into that price, which you can skip if you're setting up three copies. (At least I hope they did, their hardware prices must be dire if $2000 only gets you a tiny NAS and two 10TB drives.) If I do napkin math based on US prices, a mini PC and a 20TB external drive are $500 total, so that's $1500 for the triple-NAS option and $3000/year for the S3 infrequent access option. Still extremely compelling.
Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by bob1029 on Saturday April 19, 2025 @09:11AM (#43736166)
> S3 or glacier

This is the same product.

> 20TB

I think we might be pushing the 1% case here.

Just because we can shove 20TB of data into a cute little nas does not mean we should.

For me, knowledge that the data will definitely be there is way more important than having "free" access to a large pool of bytes.

Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by squigz on Saturday April 19, 2025 @09:29AM (#43736253)
20TB isn't all that much anymore, especially if you do anything like filming, streaming, photography, etc. Even a handful of HQ TV shows can reach several TB rather quickly.
Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by itstheporn on Saturday April 19, 2025 @03:53PM (#43738985)
Yes, HQ "TV shows".
Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by 3eb7988a1663 on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @12:44AM (#43759132)
Additionally, 20TB is only going to run you $300-400 for a consumer drive.
Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by frontlodjkgi on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @03:28AM (#43759860)
It's wild consumer drives are so much more expensive than enterprise Exos drives with better performance, reliability and warranty
Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by imtringued on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @01:42AM (#43759365)
Yes. 20TB isn't a NAS. It's the HDD acting as bulk storage in your desktop.
Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by Espressosaurus on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @01:34AM (#43759329)
20 TB isn't that out of reach when you're running your media server and taking high resolution photos or video (modern cameras push a LOT of bits).

I'm the last person I know who buys DVDs, and they're 2/3s of the reason I need more space. The last third is photography. 45.7 megapixels x 20 FPS adds up quick.

S3's cost is extreme when you're talking in the tens of terabytes range. I don't have the upstream to seed the backup, and if I'm going outside of my internal network it's too slow to use as primary storage. Just the NAS on gigabit ethernet is barely adequate to the task.

Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by lurking_swe on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @01:51AM (#43759402)
hardly 1%, i’m sure anyone that works in the film industry or media in general has terabytes of video footage. Maybe even professional photographers who have many clients.
Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by SteveNuts on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @01:52AM (#43759409)
> knowledge that the data will definitely be there is way more important than having "free" access to a large pool of bytes

Until Amazon inexplicably deletes your AWS account because your Amazon.com account had an expired credit card and was trying and failing to renew a subscription.

Ask me how I know

Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by Hamuko on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @02:02AM (#43759454)
>This is the same product.

Confusingly "Glacier" is both its own product, which stores data in "vaults", and a family of storage tiers on Amazon S3, which stores data in "buckets". I think Glacier the product is deprecated though, since accessing the Glacier dashboard immediately recommends using Glacier the S3 storage tiers instead.

Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by queenkjuul on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @03:31AM (#43759873)
20TB is a single drive
Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by bambax on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @04:01AM (#43760020)
I currently store 10 TB on my NAS, and growing. The data is live, I access some of it every day, sometimes remotely. I have 3 rotating "independent" backups in addition to the NAS (by independent I mean they're made with rsync and don't depend on any specific NAS OS feature), stored in an old safe that would probably not be very effective against thieves but should protect the drives in case of fire.

There are no recurring costs to this setup except electricity. I don't think S3 can beat that.

Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by Dylan16807 on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @04:10AM (#43760050)
> Just because we can shove 20TB of data into a cute little nas does not mean we should.

Okay, I'm curious now. When you were talking about "a bunch of local disks", what size disk did you have in mind?

Right now the best price per TB is found on disks in the 14-24TB range.

Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by disambiguation on Saturday April 19, 2025 @10:03PM (#43741011)
How much does S3 cost these days? I've been burned by their hidden surge pricing before and hesitate to rely on them for personal storage when self hosting is fairly cheap.
Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by dmoy on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @12:52AM (#43759162)
Disk hosting cost isn't much

Bandwidth to get all of that back down to your system is much pricier, depending on how much you use that data.

Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by mystifyingpoi on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @03:41AM (#43759924)
Storage cost is nice, data transfer costs are often prohibitively high.
Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by 3np on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @01:43AM (#43759367)
3-2-1 says you want both. Can be convenient to centralize backups on a local NAS and then publish to the cloud from there.
Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by cm2187 on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @03:02AM (#43759717)
For large datasets, the cost of that is like rebuying your NAS every 9-12 months.
Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by akho on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @03:20AM (#43759822)
> You'll never beat the QoS and resilience of the cloud storage product with something at home.

You can’t be serious.

Re:Synology Lost the Plot with Hard Drive Locking Move by frontlodjkgi on Tuesday April 22, 2025 @03:31AM (#43759874)
The only thing making S3 a no-go for me is their outbound traffic costs at $90/TB, which at 100TB restore would make out $9K just to transfer the data back once