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Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by swat535 on Wednesday April 02, 2025 @05:21PM (#43561763)
What's the actual strategy behind the current US administration slapping tariffs on everything? Feels like they're handing them out like Halloween candy. Is there a long game here, or is it just managed chaos and alienating trade partners for short term optics?
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by dragonwriter on Wednesday April 02, 2025 @08:06PM (#43563295)
They claim that they are "reciprocal" tariffs, and their chart shows them at exactly half the tariffs they claim are imposed by the target or 10%, whichever is lower. But it is suspicious that the column on their infographic showing the foreign tariffs has fine print indicating that includes other non-tariff things that you can't easily calculated as a neat rate the way tariffs are. And, some people running the numbers have determined that the quoted foreign "tariff" amounts are consistently the US trade deficit in goods with the target country divided by that country's exports to the US, with a minimum of 10%.

So, despite being labelled "tariffs", the actual basis for calculating the "reciprocal tariffs" has nothing to do with tariffs.

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by floxy on Wednesday April 02, 2025 @05:51PM (#43562084)
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by ironyman on Wednesday April 02, 2025 @05:25PM (#43561805)
People like Navarro believes a non-trivial amount of manufacturing can be coaxed back to the US from China and Vietnam.
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by sitkack on Thursday April 03, 2025 @12:53AM (#43564893)
Only if we tank our currency and create a huge population of people willing to work for a buck oh five.
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by int_19h on Thursday April 03, 2025 @01:53AM (#43565272)
That's a sacrifice they are willing others to make.
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by cmurf on Thursday April 03, 2025 @01:16AM (#43565025)
Kill people's savings, might happen. Discretionary spending is about to get clobbered. Restaurants may be at the top of that list, and travel.

I rather doubt Walmart is going to increase the price of only Chinese made goods 25%. I think everything goes up 25% and they pocket the margin as long as they can get away with it.

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by astrange on Thursday April 03, 2025 @01:33AM (#43565141)
> Kill people's savings, might happen.

It doesn't work because it's basically illegal to be poor in America, or rather to live like a poor person in a developing country. Because of theories about gentrification and such we just banned everything like SROs, company dorms, etc.

It worked for a little while in the 2000s because earlier flight from cities had left a lot of empty housing open to gentrify, but none of that is left.

There's a few classes of people left like supercommuters and people who live in RVs in the Amazon warehouse parking lot, but not going to run a big factory like that.

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by selimthegrim on Thursday April 03, 2025 @05:31AM (#43567116)
You clearly have never lived in Louisiana.
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by astrange on Friday April 04, 2025 @02:58PM (#43586417)
Well yeah, that's just some weird French place we bought and turned into a slave labor camp.

But memes about suicide nets aside, Chinese factory workers are there by their own choice, because it's better than their alternatives, and we've eliminated such choices by simply making it illegal to have the low cost of living it requires.

This was done to make the poor underclass go away (homeless people) but it also makes this type of working class (factory workers) go away. Luckily for us, we have a service economy with email jobs for them to work instead.

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by selimthegrim on Friday April 04, 2025 @03:54PM (#43587000)
>Well yeah, that's just some weird French place we bought and turned into a slave labor camp.

Well pack it up, that, the Evangeline legend and the Katrina episode of Boondocks round the tale out. Nothing else to see here.

(Actually, the slave labor camp is Mississippi these days [1])

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9354922; https://web.archive.org/web/20201108140152/https://in.news.y...

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by astrange on Friday April 04, 2025 @06:40PM (#43588498)
I mean, I was just thinking about the civil law system.

The problems I described are mostly in blue states, although Texas has different problems that somehow result in basically the same issues. Like Houston doesn't have zoning, but still ends up with sprawl due to other restrictions.

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by selimthegrim on Friday April 04, 2025 @08:44PM (#43589239)
Unless you’re dealing with wills and stuff, and real property the civil law system isn’t really affecting people that much because you have to have some compatibility with the other 49 states. Even divorce is not as unique as it was. But yeah, it still is a disadvantage to incorporate here.
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by maxglute on Wednesday April 02, 2025 @05:25PM (#43561808)
https://www.ft.com/content/fba87dd3-514a-41c2-b2b9-ea597ffbd...

https://www.hudsonbaycapital.com/documents/FG/hudsonbay/rese...

The TLDR is Miran sold to Trump US can Plaza Accord everyone, devalue USD to reindustrialize US, draw down US debt/commitments, keep exorbitant privelege... all by slapping tariffs (Trump's fav hammer) to scare countries into signing (converting) existing US commitments to "century bonds" in US favour while tying them to US orbit for foreseeable future. Is US strong enough to coerce others to sign on? IMO doesn't matter, this seems like plan specifically tailered to Trump preferences and ego, so as long as Trump thinks so Miran gets the job.

E: there is logic to the plan, logic that appeals to Trump -> US strength and monetary manipulation skills can force others to fall in line. And TBH countries have fallen in line in the past.

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by danny_codes on Wednesday April 02, 2025 @09:36PM (#43563760)
Yeah that’s not going to work. America is about to find out that the era of bully pulpit is over. Why work with a recalcitrant and quite frankly obnoxious US when you can cut bilateral EU/Asian deals?
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by defrost on Wednesday April 02, 2025 @08:09PM (#43563317)
It's hard to have insight on what the US admin is thinking behind the public facing statements, however this might be of interest:

Why Trump’s tariffs are better than you think — and much worse

subscribe! https://www.crikey.com.au/2025/03/06/donald-trump-tariffs-im...

or read now, maybe subscribe later: https://archive.md/H46RG

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by mcfunley on Wednesday April 02, 2025 @05:33PM (#43561883)
Category error to think there's a strategy. Trump doesn't even know what a tariff is. People try to project a strategy because it's probably too discomfiting to believe that the greatest superpower the world has ever known elected a complete nimrod king.
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by xfp on Wednesday April 02, 2025 @05:36PM (#43561920)
Trump is using century-old misinformation about tariffs to raise tax revenue to pay for tax cuts on the wealthy. In reality, it's an added tax on all spending that accelerates inflation.

Tariffs are theoretically supposed to encourage domestic production, but rely on the false premise that all raw and intermediate materials can be sourced domestically at a cost below the import price. That has generally proven to not work unless tariffs are in the hundreds of percent. But at that level, import taxes tend to poison entire sectors due to supply lag instead of drive domestic economies.

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by jonifico on Thursday April 03, 2025 @12:08AM (#43564638)
Interesting, do you have a source to get more information about this?
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by xfp on Thursday April 03, 2025 @11:00AM (#43570757)
It's a bit difficult to nail down direct citations for what is basic knowledge of how tariffs work in reality. It's covered in AP/college macroecon and U.S. history classes.

Wikipedia's articles on Smoot–Hawley and the Tariff of Abominations both have sections on their effects.

In short, we'll see a brief rise in the domestic economy, then a sharp recession. One of the reasons SE Asia, BRICS, and the EU have been so active to disconnect themselves from the U.S. is they don't want to get caught up in the U.S. economic failure like they did in the 1930s.

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by wrvn on Thursday April 03, 2025 @04:57PM (#43575314)
This type of approach is called protectionism, the Wikipedia article is pretty good and goes into the implications of it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protectionism
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by s1artibartfast on Wednesday April 02, 2025 @05:33PM (#43561893)
I'm on the side of free trade and dont think there is a single policy. The strongest arguments I can think of are:

1) raise tax revenue in a way that partially falls on foreign nationals

2) reduce trade deficits and foreign purchasing of treasuries.

3) Increase relative power if other economies are damaged more than the US. There are situations where zero and negative sum strategies are optimal, like war, where it is better to have a larger % of a smaller overall pie.

4) stimulate demand for us labor

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by JumpCrisscross on Wednesday April 02, 2025 @07:36PM (#43563064)
> 2) reduce trade deficits and foreign purchasing of treasuries

None of the GOP budgets reduce the deficit. Trump’s blew them out even further.

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by s1artibartfast on Wednesday April 02, 2025 @08:33PM (#43563438)
Im talking about trade deficits, not budget deficits. Im not convinced trade deficits are a bad thing to begin with, but that is a whole sperate can of worms.

My understanding is that yes, the national debt is still increasing, although the administration is counting on tariff funds to supplement revenue. Would you agree?

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by danny_codes on Wednesday April 02, 2025 @09:37PM (#43563770)
And they are trying to push through a massive tax cut. So.. yeah unclear what the goals are here
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by JumpCrisscross on Thursday April 03, 2025 @12:34AM (#43564786)
> the national debt is still increasing, although the administration is counting on tariff funds to supplement revenue

Not the debt, the deficit. The debt is the card balance. The deficit are new swipes. Nothing in the current policy package is about deficit (let alone debt) reduction.

(Valid on trade deficits. I guess we can run trade surpluses if we give up dollar hegemony. That, of course, means no more deficits.)

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by mahogany on Thursday April 03, 2025 @09:38AM (#43569431)
> My understanding is that yes, the national debt is still increasing, although the administration is counting on tariff funds to supplement revenue. Would you agree?

Let me see if I am following. The tariffs are ostensibly about spurring domestic industry so that American companies can flourish and we don’t have to pay tariffs on imports of foreign goods in the long term. Is that right? If so, then long term, aren’t we hoping that the “tariff funds” are small? But they are simultaneously supposed to supplement revenue to pay down debt too?

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by thiht on Wednesday April 02, 2025 @05:25PM (#43561812)
Can we please stop acting like Trump and MAGA behave rationally?
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by sydbarrett74 on Thursday April 03, 2025 @12:10AM (#43564652)
A rebirth of mercantilism. Peter Navarro is a huge fan of it, and in his heterodox fever dreams, laments that most of the world abandoned it several centuries ago. In his mind, a net surplus of currency is every bit as important as having a strong military. People like Lighthizer have drunk the coloured sugar-water.