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Re:Tell Mozilla: it's time to ditch Google by paulryanrogers on Wednesday March 12, 2025 @08:08AM (#43342358)
In this landscape I'm curious if any amount of money can overcome the oligopoly advantages of owning the OS (with no anti-trust enforcement) or owning the most popular web properties.

Even if every cent for the past ten years went to browser dev alone, would that have made a difference?

Do regular users even know the difference between one browser and another? Or is it only the icon they recognize, if even that?

Re:Tell Mozilla: it's time to ditch Google by n_ary on Wednesday March 12, 2025 @06:32PM (#43348383)
> Do regular users even know the difference […]

Honestly, from observing my close family and friends as well as passing by strangers, everyone uses whatever default comes(i.e. Chrome on Android) or again Chrome(on iOS because they saw some banner ad somewhere to install it to access their password stored previously in android life).

The core portal to internet currently appears to be the blue-F(aka Facebook) icon which has an interesting search. People search in Facebook for specific topic and then will reluctantly move over to browser and again search on Google(always default). So, in summary no, everyone uses Chrome and does not know the difference.

Some of my colleagues seem to use Brave and Linux die-hards use Firefox(comes default with ubuntu last I tried ubuntu).

Re:Tell Mozilla: it's time to ditch Google by onlyrealcuzzo on Wednesday March 12, 2025 @06:50PM (#43348530)
You're spending money in the wrong place - spend it on marketing instead of dev, and you've got a shot.
Re:Tell Mozilla: it's time to ditch Google by paulryanrogers on Wednesday March 12, 2025 @08:05PM (#43349040)
People aren't motivated to change the defaults, unless they're told they should change by "clicking here" in prominent (non-ad) banners. Mozilla cannot buy the OS defaults nor such brand positions.
Re:Tell Mozilla: it's time to ditch Google by scarface_74 on Wednesday March 12, 2025 @09:30PM (#43349521)
Android is only 30% of the market in the US. I don’t know how much browser usage comes from Chromebooks.

Every single Windows and Mac user who uses Chrome made an affirmative choice to download Chrome. Why didn’t they decide to download Firefox?

Re:Tell Mozilla: it's time to ditch Google by paulryanrogers on Wednesday March 12, 2025 @10:55PM (#43349988)
Did they make an active choice? Or did an OEM or family member add Chrome to their machine? Or did a Google nag banner convince them to switch?
Re:Tell Mozilla: it's time to ditch Google by scarface_74 on Wednesday March 12, 2025 @11:10PM (#43350046)
Which PC OEM ships computers with Chrome? And is it somehow anti competitive because a family member chose Chrome over Firefox?
Re:Tell Mozilla: it's time to ditch Google by afavour on Thursday March 13, 2025 @12:07AM (#43350284)
Yeah, this is my takeaway as well. Folks in this discussion are saying “why can’t Mozilla just focus on making Firefox” and my response would be “because that’s the path to eventual death”.

Firefox is, what, 3% of the browser market today? It isn’t because it’s a bad browser. It’s because people are using OSes with tightly integrated browsers they never think to change. Making Firefox faster or adding vertical tabs or whatever the demand of the day is won’t change that.

Re:Tell Mozilla: it's time to ditch Google by TulliusCicero on Thursday March 13, 2025 @12:28AM (#43350397)
People still download Chrome onto Windows. Used to be they did that for Firefox/Firebird/Phoenix.
Re:Tell Mozilla: it's time to ditch Google by afavour on Thursday March 13, 2025 @09:42AM (#43353263)
I would argue the reason so many people do that is because every time you visit a Google property it prompts you to do so. Mozilla doesn’t have the advantage of owning sites that are part of people’s daily routines either.
Re:Tell Mozilla: it's time to ditch Google by TulliusCicero on Friday March 14, 2025 @01:25AM (#43359832)
Yeah, but before Chrome people were doing this for Firefox, just from word of mouth.
Re:Tell Mozilla: it's time to ditch Google by paulryanrogers on Friday March 14, 2025 @06:54PM (#43368186)
Word of mouth is quite a bit different. It's the opinion of many unconflicted friends/family vs the opinion of one megacorp with a conflict of interest.
Re:Tell Mozilla: it's time to ditch Google by mixmastamyk on Thursday March 13, 2025 @12:29AM (#43350401)
All that money for years put into an income-producing endowment could pay for firefox and tbird indefinitely. Desktops aren't going away, even if mobile outgrew them.
Re:Tell Mozilla: it's time to ditch Google by econ on Thursday March 13, 2025 @01:00AM (#43350525)
The thing I think will bring in users is search. Full text history search with some modest depth crawling for the domain and external links. The easy Google money makes it unattractive.

It will take some time for enough users to be blown away by how useful this is.

I wrote a simple user script one time that subscribes me to all discoverable rss feeds I run into while browsing. It seemed rather random but I was blown away by how interesting the websites I visit are to me. You can imagine it, now multiply that by 10 000 and you have a good estimate.

Google has to index 130 billion pages and is barely able to deliver half interesting results. If you query it with something like "Firefox" or "Google" it will find zero interesting pages. Stuff so boring you won't even bother.

In your history there might be hundreds of interesting articles, discussions, lectures, publications etc interesting to you specifically!

That obscure website you once visited, that one without any traffic, visited by Googlebot one time per week which then bothers to index 5% of it and puts the results on page 20 of the search results. Why it even bothers to index it no one knows.

Now say you want to read it again or you are searching for that obscure thing again 5 years later it is there in your history.

Mozaïk had full text history search in 1994 when hard drives were 5 mb and the www had 10 000 pages. The www now has a hundred thousand times as many pages but drives are a million times larger. Unlike 1994 you won't be able to visit a single digit percentage of it.

Re:Tell Mozilla: it's time to ditch Google by janalsncm on Thursday March 13, 2025 @03:56AM (#43351122)
> Full text history search with some modest depth crawling for the domain and external links

I’ve built something similar myself. It’s quite annoying that the browser only saves like 3 months of history.

Re:Tell Mozilla: it's time to ditch Google by account42 on Thursday March 13, 2025 @07:08AM (#43352124)
A good start would be to not delete old history without warning like Firefox does now.
Re:Tell Mozilla: it's time to ditch Google by paulryanrogers on Thursday March 13, 2025 @09:59AM (#43353441)
Shame they hide the option to keep history forever in about:config. At least there are some add-ons to help set that.

I can understand the default not keeping forever, for privacy, storage, and performance reasons.

Re:Tell Mozilla: it's time to ditch Google by econ on Thursday March 13, 2025 @11:38PM (#43359376)
If there is one thing users want without knowing it it is the long term accumulation of value.

Writing comments takes only slightly less effort than writing a draft for a book. The Twitter or facebook history, even our comments here quickly lose value. It all vanishes into the hole.

In contrast, i once ran into a geocities page created by a very elderly couple in the US about their vacations. They were old enough to tell the story about how the world changed over time from an appropriately mundane perspective. They probably died before I found the homepage. It was an oddly interesting read. In 100 years it would be truly marvelous.

If the software is there we could probably wrap the proverbial Richard Stallman's browser history into a product worth buying. It would be every bit as funny as it sounds.