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Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by mrcwinn on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:47PM (#43210460)
Must we endlessly fund a war that is in stalemate and will continue to savagely end the lives of military and civilian alike? Otherwise, we are a bully? Is it in our interest to continue to run up debt, send overseas ammunition and hardware? To what end? And for how long? I remember wondering the same during Iraq and Afghanistan. Is this really America's permanent responsibility, for any country in the world?

It's quite remarkable the change in America over a couple decades. In the 90s, the left was solidly pro-free-speech and anti-war. Anti-war sometimes to a fault, even. Maybe aside from some censorship effort of rap and Mortal Kombat, you could count on the left to defend free speech at nearly any cost.

Now, it is the left that seems interested in doubling down on wars, without any plan for escape, and of "reigning in" speech deemed by some as harmful.

I'm not here to say correct or incorrect. Pick your own ice cream flavor. My point is that it's striking how much the parties have flipped 180 degrees (on some issues).

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by PaulDavisThe1st on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:51PM (#43210531)
> and of "reigning in" speech deemed by some as harmful.

Can you cite any legislative efforts anywhere in the USA by any elected Democrat that limits, coerces or in anyway "reigns in" speech of any sort?

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by no_exit on Friday February 28, 2025 @04:43PM (#43211750)
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by i_love_retros on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:50PM (#43210502)
No one is saying you are a bully for wanting to end the war.

You are a bully for the disgusting way Trump and Vance just treated Zelenksy

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by umanwizard on Friday February 28, 2025 @04:16PM (#43211117)
I’m a bully for how someone I don’t know treated someone else I don’t know, because he happens to be the head of state of the country I live in?
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by j_maffe on Friday February 28, 2025 @05:15PM (#43212322)
You, as in the country.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by umanwizard on Friday February 28, 2025 @10:07PM (#43215312)
I am not a country. Nor are countries sentient beings with intentions; they are abstract entities. “We” didn’t bully anyone — one or two specific people did.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by mrguyorama on Friday February 28, 2025 @05:49PM (#43212772)
Yes. Democracy means we are culpable for what our leaders do.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by umanwizard on Friday February 28, 2025 @06:29PM (#43213236)
That is a very expansive understanding of democracy that would, for example, imply that indiscriminately targeting civilians in a war is justifiable.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by usernomdeguerre on Friday February 28, 2025 @08:03PM (#43214293)
No, it doesn't.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by i_love_retros on Saturday March 01, 2025 @07:27AM (#43218592)
Read the parent comment.

> Must we endlessly fund a war that is in stalemate and will continue to savagely end the lives of military and civilian alike? Otherwise, we are a bully?

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by just-ok on Friday February 28, 2025 @04:07PM (#43210887)
Ukraine has lost massive amounts of lives, territory, and foreign funding under his leadership; Zelensky effectively has zero negotiating power.

Where are the voices that simply want the war to end so people stop dying? It’s easy to say bully this and ally that from the comfort of your office while hundreds of thousands of people die in a strip of land most “supporters” couldn’t point out on a map. At this point there’s a collective ego tied to the outcome more than there is any care for the actual people involved.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by anonymousDan on Friday February 28, 2025 @04:14PM (#43211071)
Some things are worth fighting for you quisling.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by just-ok on Friday February 28, 2025 @04:41PM (#43211703)
As long as someone else does the fighting, right? Last I checked, the majority of Ukrainians themselves want a quick end to the war.

[1]: https://news.gallup.com/poll/653495/half-ukrainians-quick-ne...

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by ceejayoz on Friday February 28, 2025 @04:49PM (#43211859)
I want a million dollars. Very much!

That doesn't mean I'll accept your proposal to rob a bank.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by sterlind on Friday February 28, 2025 @05:42PM (#43212685)
What a dogshit poll. There were three options given:

1. Ukraine should continue fighting until it wins the war.

2. Ukraine should seek to negotiate an ending to the war as soon as possible.

3. Don't know/Refused.

"Ukraine should surrender unconditionally" and "Ukraine should negotiate permanent security guarantees" and "Ukraine should fight its way into a better negotiating position" are all in the same bucket. This is maliciously bad poll design.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by i_love_retros on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:52PM (#43210553)
And they way they are trying to bully Ukraine into a minerals agreement and rebuilding agreement to strip Ukraine of everything it has. Trump doesn't care about peace, he wants to make money
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by mrcwinn on Friday February 28, 2025 @04:02PM (#43210778)
If the war ends, that is peace. Do you believe Ukraine will be better off financially by continuing the war, even if it is on America’s credit card? They will not flourish in the present state, however noble they believe the effort is. War is not fair.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by Ferret7446 on Friday February 28, 2025 @05:10PM (#43212235)
Zelensky is an adult, a leader of a country, who has many lives in his hands. He is not a baby that needs to be coddled.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by brazzy on Saturday March 01, 2025 @12:43AM (#43216353)
As opposed to Trump, who is an adult, a leader of a country, who has many lives in his hands, and behaves like a baby that needs to be coddled.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by krelian on Friday February 28, 2025 @04:39PM (#43211656)
This is a defensive war. This is the lesson we learned when the world did nothing to stop Hitler's initial aggression. This is the moment of truth. Doing nothing is easy, it's the default. We now know the possible consequences and we've made our mind to not let that happen again. Have we learned nothing?
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by mcphage on Friday February 28, 2025 @04:48PM (#43211842)
> Is it in our interest to continue to run up debt, send overseas ammunition and hardware?

Whose economy gets the money spent? If it's ours—and it is—then yes, it's obviously in our interest to continue to run up debt.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by nomel on Friday February 28, 2025 @06:10PM (#43213014)
It's not great to ignore inflation and debt. There's a long list of failed governments who tried.