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Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by thunder-blue-3 on Thursday February 13, 2025 @12:18PM (#43038467)
I was once offered an engineering manager position at iridium (which i discussed here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41748519)-- that entire company is a race to reduce the bottom line. They offered me (an engineering manager to 5 engineers) a lower salary than I was offered as a new grad. Also their talent pipeline is quite stale, most of the engineers on my prospective team were at the org for 10-20 years. For such an interesting aspect of technology, it's ashame they can't attract more talent, such an untapped market low earth orbit satellite networks are...
Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by harrall on Thursday February 13, 2025 @02:53PM (#43040480)
Iridium and other satellite companies also went bankrupt and their satellites were going to be de-orbited until the US Government bailed them out in the 2000s. They couldn’t get enough customers to support enough launches.

Terrestrial networks in the meantime have only gotten better and improved coverage. Not that many customers, relatively, need satellite comms.

Now SpaceX is eating their lunch.

I don’t think the market for satellite comms has ever been big enough for a pure-satellite company to get enough money to do something cool. SpaceX can afford the R&D because they are a little more diversified.

Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by mschuster91 on Thursday February 13, 2025 @04:28PM (#43041611)
> They couldn’t get enough customers to support enough launches.

No surprise, the only usecases back then for the price that Iridium and others commanded were SAR, a few military/secret service style use cases and execs who deem themselves to be of such importance that they need to be reachable on the globe 24/7 even if they are just taking a flight over the Atlantic or on a cruise ship, and Iridium can't be reasonably used for much more than that.

> Now SpaceX is eating their lunch.

Partially due to physics. Latency on Starlink is reportedly low enough to run online games or telephony and the bandwidth high enough to allow for video streaming in the outback, which makes the potential market size muuuuch bigger so the price point can be lowered enough to be competitive with landline DSL of all things.

The problem is, SpaceX isn't something that the US government can rely on forever. For now, its leader is in good standing with the 47th, but that may change overnight (it has happened with either of these characters before and both have quite the large egos that will collide rather sooner than later). And what to do then?

Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by erinaceousjones on Thursday February 13, 2025 @05:08PM (#43042032)
The other usecase has been Oceanographic sensors and moorings, and GPS tags on things. Iridium RUDICS gets you verrrry slow dialup connections to things and Iridium Short Burst Data gets you ~1800 byte messages sent 'mailbox' style. We use Iridium for sending them commands but also a surprising amount of useful data can be stuffed into those ~28k connections and 1800 byte payloads.

Argo floats use them, Slocum gliders and Seagliders use them (underwater AUVs). There's lots of Iridium resellers out there and small companies offering backup GPS tags like RocksBlocks and Novatech and Argos (not too be confused with Argo, or Argos the brand).

We get enough data back to build up vertical profiles of the water column down to like 6000m depth with enough resolution that scientists can pick out physical chemical and biological features of interest. We communicate with the AUVs every couple of hours on average and they are operating all year round. I think there's probably a couple thousand underwater-glider style AUVs and a couple thousand Argo floats being used in total by the world's oceanographic institutes, meteorological institutes, militaries and coastguards etc.

It's a small niche, but a small niche that's been collectively using Iridium for the best part of over 2 decades now and one that is very conservative about change.... Like extraplanetary rovers with radiation hardened hardware, deep sea pressure tested robots use tried and tested stuff so we're a long ways off switching to higher bandwidth alternatives... Especially since Iridium comms are very low power and the modems are easy to integrate into things.. tiny boards which accept AT commands over serial.

It does not suprise me at all that security flaws have been found in Iridium. Most of our applications of it don't even consider security, the hardware itself rarely offers encryption, and old-school Iridium RUDICS requires you to open up a raw TCP port on a server open to the internet for your satellite devices to dial into in RUDICS mode, and if you're using SBD you're sending plaintext emails back and forth to the Iridium gateway service. The whole thing is very "security is not our problem" which means nobody thinks about it. I believe the military versions of one of the underwater glider AUVs has a login prompt now lol, but still sends unencrypted passwords over the plaintext RUDICS connection.

Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by irish_john on Thursday February 13, 2025 @05:19PM (#43042162)
>Now SpaceX is eating their lunch. Fact Check Time! Iridium stock jumped 15% today, because their 4Q earnings vastly beat expectations. They earned $0.31 per share versus expectations of $0.16 Their Revenue grew 9% Year over Year to $213 million
Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by jandrese on Thursday February 13, 2025 @12:50PM (#43038921)
This seems like it should be totally expected. Iridium's engineering efforts are largely in the past, they're purely in the revenue extraction mode at this point. Your job description is basically just "maintain obsolete legacy system just enough to make money."
Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by morgango on Thursday February 13, 2025 @12:29PM (#43038625)
Iridium, that is a name I've not heard in a long time.

IMHO, the worst places to be are organizations that were supposed to change the world, but didn't, and don't quite get it.

Your experience totally tracks with that.

Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by bathtub365 on Thursday February 13, 2025 @02:07PM (#43039888)
They set up global satellite communications over 20 years ago. They did change the world.
Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by glitchc on Thursday February 13, 2025 @01:03PM (#43039104)
Starlink ate Iridium's lunch. Any benefits Iridium was supposed to provide are currently achieved by Starlink.
Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by moolcool on Thursday February 13, 2025 @01:10PM (#43039192)
Maybe specialty hardware? Are there handsets yet which can connect to starlink?
Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by albroland on Thursday February 13, 2025 @01:14PM (#43039250)
iPhone, most notably.
Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by windexh8er on Thursday February 13, 2025 @03:13PM (#43040708)
Much more than iPhone. From Tmobile's FAQ [0]:

Apple iPhone 14 and later (including Plus, Pro & Pro Max), Google Pixel 9 (including Pro, Pro Fold, & Pro XL), Motorola 2024 and later (including razr, razr+, edge and g series), Samsung Galaxy A14, A15, A16, A35, A53, A54, Samsung Galaxy S21 and later (including Plus, Ultra and Fan Edition), Samsung Galaxy X Cover6 Pro, Samsung Galaxy Z Flip3 and later, Samsung Galaxy Z Fold3 and later and REVVL 7 (including Pro)

[0] https://www.t-mobile.com/coverage/satellite-phone-service?ic...

Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by moolcool on Thursday February 13, 2025 @01:31PM (#43039438)
Starlink Direct to Cell is not available yet
Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by flutas on Thursday February 13, 2025 @01:34PM (#43039463)
I have it on my Pixel 9 Pro XL right now and have had it since the end of January. Worked well so far for me in the country where Tmo typically has had dead spots, if not a little slow.

https://i.imgur.com/wrl5KLf.png

Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by moolcool on Thursday February 13, 2025 @01:38PM (#43039515)
That is just texting though, not voice or data.
Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by schiffern on Thursday February 13, 2025 @02:08PM (#43039903)
Let's not move goalposts. It's still undeniably both "Starlink" and "Direct To Cell," so I would say that Starlink Direct To Cell is indeed available.
Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by moolcool on Thursday February 13, 2025 @02:56PM (#43040506)
Moving the goalposts? The point I was refuting was "Any benefits Iridium was supposed to provide are currently achieved by Starlink", but Iridium offers services today which StarLink does not.
Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by keyme on Thursday February 13, 2025 @01:42PM (#43039570)
Is it 5G only or does LTE also work?
Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by jandrese on Thursday February 13, 2025 @03:08PM (#43040651)
It's only for texting so it doesn't really matter. That said Iridium is so slow it's mostly only useful for texting type situations as well. Even the voice is so heavily compressed and laggy as to be mildly unpleasant to use.
Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by martinsnow on Thursday February 13, 2025 @12:54PM (#43038970)
Sadly I expect them to be at the stage of no relevance. Just enough that as another commenter said it could make some money but satellites have no business value.
Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by wcfields on Thursday February 13, 2025 @01:05PM (#43039139)
Their value is the niche of being able to work at the poles, unlike any other constellation, despite being dialup speed.
Re:White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws by martinsnow on Thursday February 13, 2025 @01:08PM (#43039171)
But how can you translate that to dollars today?