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Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by hansvm on Saturday February 08, 2025 @10:17PM (#42988156)
I've lived in a few dozen cities (most very, very rural) in the US, and The Bay has, by far, the worst electricity out of any of them. We have longer outages as a planned practice than I'd have from ice storms knocking down half the forest or waves partially flooding the town.

As an outside observer, the fact that PG&E can lie to the state and request money for maintenance, subsequently sending that money to shareholders, looks like a likely candidate for many of the problems.

It's especially annoying that it's the lowest quality power while it's working (compared to a pure sine signal), has the highest count of days with some power blip, the highest number of full days without power each year, it's 2.5x more expensive than anywhere else I've lived, and they don't even have snow or ice or the same levels of wind and rain as the other places with better power. Plus they're servicing more people per square mile. It ought to be more efficient.

Maybe CA really is special somehow, but it looks like ordinary corruption.

Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by krallja on Saturday February 08, 2025 @10:58PM (#42988326)
Californians blame it all on Enron, but that can't be the only reason, right?
Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by zmgsabst on Sunday February 09, 2025 @12:49AM (#42988770)
The Enron scandal was 24 years ago, which is a generation ago — almost two.

I’d guess the problem is more endemic to their political system.

Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by cinntaile on Sunday February 09, 2025 @04:55AM (#42989663)
20-30 years is 1 generation.
Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by ahoef on Sunday February 09, 2025 @05:16AM (#42989751)
There are genetic generations and cultural generations. I think they mean the cultural generations.
Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by mschuster91 on Sunday February 09, 2025 @06:15AM (#42989950)
The thing is, large scandals can have an aftereffect that lasts for decades.

Berlin for example had a massive bank collapse in 2001 under the Conservative government that ended up placing the state of Berlin into billions of euros worth of debt and financial risk. The succeeding SD/Left/Green triplet coalitions had to fire-sell off many state-held assets like the water utility (that ended up a disaster on its own [2]) and especially a huge amount of residential real estate, which is now contributing to the insane rent explosions in Berlin.

To this day, Berlin hasn't recovered from all the penny-pinching of the last decades.

[1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berliner_Bankenskandal

[2] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berliner_Wasserbetriebe#Streit...

Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by bigfudge on Sunday February 09, 2025 @11:42AM (#42991729)
This sounds like the state of the entire UK
Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by graemep on Monday February 10, 2025 @04:25AM (#42998455)
Much worse. I am really sick of British people (those who have not lived abroad or had really experience of other countries) thinking the UK is uniquely bad. Its in fact better than than most places in most ways. Why do you think people want to immigrate here (including lots of highly skilled people who can pick where they live, and lots of people from other rich countries)? Why do you think so many of us with dual nationality who can just go somewhere else as a right live (ship our stuff and get on plane, whenever we like) here?

We have not had anything on the scale of what the GP describes of a city going billions into debt - even Birmingham is orders of magnitude less bad.

The government sold assets, but not at fire sale prices. I do not think selling utilities was a great idea, but its not as bad as either what GP describes, nor the "small town in Michigan" example at the top of this thread (when did you last experience a blackout in the UK?).

Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by DrillShopper on Sunday February 09, 2025 @03:25PM (#42993566)
And then they killed the nuke plants for coal because they're scared little babies.
Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by mschuster91 on Sunday February 09, 2025 @03:27PM (#42993592)
Nuke had no future in Germany. The plants haven't had security maintenance in many years because it all was relaxed due to the pending shutdown, the plants were many decades old, we don't have a place to store spent fuel (unlike Americans who have ample desert space where no one is ever gonna be bothered), new fuel comes to a shocking amount from Russia, constructing new plants takes >>10 years and many billions of euros.
Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by DrillShopper on Sunday February 09, 2025 @03:32PM (#42993647)
The nukes not having a future in Germany is completely down to the Green Party and their pathological obsession with killing nuclear power.

They organized and succeeded.

Where was the opposition? Is the entire German environmental movement beholden to the Green Party?

Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by mschuster91 on Monday February 10, 2025 @02:53AM (#42997878)
Germans never really liked nuclear power from the start, all NPPs drew massive local opposition that was by far not just the back-then new Green Party.
Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by DrillShopper on Monday February 10, 2025 @05:27PM (#43006109)
Is the term for NIMBY in German the same as it is in English?
Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by eliaspro on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @02:54PM (#43017544)
The final decision to shutdown the nuclear plants happened under a conservative CDU-led government.

And even it they don't seem to have memory now of doing so, I applaud them for this specific decision back then.

Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by viernullvier on Sunday February 09, 2025 @06:22PM (#42995177)
There have never been any grid-scale nuclear power plants in the state of Berlin. I don't see how this statement relates to the prior discussion in any way other than vague geographic proximity.
Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by theGnuMe on Sunday February 09, 2025 @12:33PM (#42992054)
The deep Texas freeze was the same thing.
Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by a123b456c on Sunday February 09, 2025 @03:00PM (#42993317)
Don't forget SDG&E/Sempra. San Diego locals hate them with a passion. It is crazy that an area with such abundant solar generation and environmental concerns should have such expensive power.
Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by tekknik on Monday February 10, 2025 @02:02PM (#43003860)
Some areas served by SDG&E have community owned power generation and SDG&E handles delivery. The price SDG&E charges for delivery is usually 30% more than generation costs.

Power bills increased after switching to community generated power.

Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by taneq on Sunday February 09, 2025 @07:23PM (#42995583)
You guys are getting full days without power? That’s disappointing. I’m in Australia and since moving a decade ago to a suburb with underground power, I think we’ve had maybe three or four outages that lasted long enough to notice, and all were fixed within a few hours.
Re:Northern California Cities Should Undercut PG&E Now by nasmorn on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @10:52AM (#43014268)
I frequently visit a farm in Austria on the very end of a rural transmission line that can be cut during storms by tree fall almost every year. I don’t think they have ever been without power for a full day. In Vienna if average something like 8min a year