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Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by UltraSane on Monday February 03, 2025 @09:16PM (#42926755)
The age is irrelevant. What IS relevant is the fact that the engineers and scientists in the Manhattan Project were all qualified and legally hired and authorized to do what they did. This is NOT true for DOGE which has no legal right to the federal payment system and no legal authority to stop any payments congress has approved.
Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by catmanjan on Monday February 03, 2025 @09:19PM (#42926795)
Hilarious irony here, given that these qualified and legally hired people built the most morally reprehensible weapon in history
Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by UltraSane on Monday February 03, 2025 @09:21PM (#42926829)
Likewise what Musk is doing is also morally reprehensible. It is the most unconstitutional power grab any US Citizen has tried is a very long time.
Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by sam345 on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @07:58AM (#42931750)
Please explain that to me? Where is the illegality and unconstitutionality? Agencies are part of the executive branch. This particularly agency was created by executive order. The executive branch can police itself. Just because some people don't like it doesn't mean it's illegal. What is illegal is USAID spending money that is violating the current president's executive order. Bringing that to light is not illegal. In fact it is the duty of the executive to make sure that his orders are being carried out.
Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by SmarsJerry on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @09:12AM (#42932540)
I dont know if people are lying and/or intentionally gaslighting. DOGE brings information to Trump, Trump acts on it. The illegal part is made up by their political opponents who have apparently being using governmental agencies use to influence other countries to also influence the US - that’s where they went wrong.
Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by UltraSane on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @10:39AM (#42933747)
You are completely and utterly wrong. The US constitution gives Congress and ONLY congress the power to spend tax money. Musk has absolutely no legal authority to unilaterally stop payments approved by congress. What Musk is doing is a very intentional effort to usurp this authority illegally. Musk should really end up in prison or deported for what he is doing right now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_the_purse#United_Stat...

In the federal government of the United States, the power of the purse is vested in the Congress as laid down in the Constitution of the United States, Article I, Section 9, Clause 7 (the Appropriations Clause) and Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 (the Taxing and Spending Clause).

The power of the purse plays a critical role in the relationship of the United States Congress and the President of the United States, and has been the main historic tool by which Congress has limited executive power.

https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/not-confident-trump-...

Not confident Trump will prevail: Scholar on his attempts to take Congress' power of the purse Professor Deborah Pearlstein joins Morning Joe to discuss her column for the NYT outlining some of Trump’s actions implemented in his first few days in office and why she says Trump is hardly the first president to claim broad executive power, but the difference is not just the enormity of his claims, it's that the administration mostly doesn't try to craft legal justifications for its actions.

https://www.marketplace.org/2025/02/04/congress-president-tr...

How Congress — and not the president — controls how taxpayer money is spent

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/01/trump-e...

‘It’s an Illegal Executive Order. And It’s Stealing.’

Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by SmarsJerry on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @01:00PM (#42936146)
You keep saying Musk and you are right Musk has no power, he just reports information to the President Trump who makes any call. So that part is irrelevant. The government can say we want to spend $1,000,000 on hammers but it doesn’t mean you have to spend $1,000,000 on one hammer. If the president finds you can buy a hammer for $10 then he can direct to 100,000 of them there instead. Also, if he finds government agencies are not performing on their obligations he can get rid of them. And lastly, a lot of changes are going to take effect until the next budget, which will be ratified by congress. Just because he says “we’re cancelling X” it doesn’t mean he’s stopping it now but once a new budget it passed.
Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by UltraSane on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @01:57PM (#42936934)
If congress passes a law to give X dollars to Y department or organization than it is blatantly and utterly illegal for the Executive branch to just say "Nah" and not do so.

"The government can say we want to spend $1,000,000 on hammers but it doesn’t mean you have to spend $1,000,000 on one hammer."

This isn't the level of detail we are concerned with. Congress says that USAID gets $5 billion a year then the Executive branch HAS to transfer that money or else it is in direct violation of the US constitution. Your entire argument is nonsensical and irrelevant.

Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by SmarsJerry on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @02:22PM (#42937294)
There must be some confusion because they aren’t cutting programs approved by congress. They are literally cutting funds that were NOT explicitly approved by congress only.
Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by UltraSane on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @04:10PM (#42938743)
"There must be some confusion because they aren’t cutting programs approved by congress."

Yes they are

"They are literally cutting funds that were NOT explicitly approved by congress only."

This is false.

You really need to realize that Musk is a liar who lies all the time and he is lying about what DOGE is doing.

Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by phonon on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @09:23AM (#42932685)
That's not how our government works. The executive branch does not get to pick and choose what parts of the budget approved by Congress it wants to execute. [0]

Also, a later act of Congress (The Foreign Affairs Reform and Restructuring Act of 1998, 22 U.S.C. 6501 et seq.) established USAID as its own agency.[1]

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impoundment_of_appropriated_...

[1] https://www.justsecurity.org/107267/can-president-dissolve-u...

Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by UltraSane on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @10:35AM (#42933706)
Congress controls spending and no one person can just decide not to transfer the funds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_the_purse#United_Stat...

In the federal government of the United States, the power of the purse is vested in the Congress as laid down in the Constitution of the United States, Article I, Section 9, Clause 7 (the Appropriations Clause) and Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 (the Taxing and Spending Clause).

The power of the purse plays a critical role in the relationship of the United States Congress and the President of the United States, and has been the main historic tool by which Congress has limited executive power.

https://www.marketplace.org/2025/02/04/congress-president-tr...

How Congress — and not the president — controls how taxpayer money is spent

Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by LeafItAlone on Monday February 03, 2025 @10:15PM (#42927354)
>built the most morally reprehensible weapon in history

That’s obviously arguable. Did the weapon and its usage cause more or fewer deaths and destruction than without it?

Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by catmanjan on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @07:35AM (#42931539)
By that logic killing all humans now would be better than letting future generations die
Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by Capricorn2481 on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @12:29AM (#42928412)
"Let's not hire experts. Experts built the bomb, ya know."
Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by muddi900 on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @07:34AM (#42931534)
Funny that this comment is in defense of DOGE disregarding all expertise and handing keys over to a bunch non-experts.
Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by blitzar on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @07:58AM (#42931753)
It is unironically DEI for nerds.
Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by Capricorn2481 on Saturday February 08, 2025 @03:55PM (#42986131)
It was a sarcastic comment disparaging DOGE and the comment above. How did you get that it defends DOGE?
Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by steve_adams_86 on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @02:06AM (#42929069)
They weren’t the only ones building it, for what it’s worth. They were well aware of that.

If you knew a country wanted to build a weapon to cripple your own country, and you had the necessary skills to build that weapon, would you feel come compulsion to try and build it first in order to protect your family and friends? To protect yourself?

Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by rangestransform on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @11:17AM (#42934350)
Making war between (certain) nations unconscionable and apocalyptic may have done more for peace than anything created for the purpose of peace
Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by Dalewyn on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @04:59AM (#42930429)
>This is NOT true for DOGE which has no legal right

DOGE and the Treasury Department are both part of the Executive Branch and derive powers from its head, aka the President.

This is essentially President Trump telling President Trump to hand President Trump the keys to the payment system so that President Trump can check WTF President Trump is spending money on.

Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by pavlov on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @05:51AM (#42930799)
Except it’s Congress spending the money, and Congress is the one who has the authority to hand the keys and do the checks (called “oversight” in that boring old world of government).

Maybe you see the inherent problem with the setup where President Trump is in charge of checking up on what President Trump is spending money on.

Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by Bluescreenbuddy on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @08:23AM (#42931976)
You seem to have forgotten that the power of the purse is Congress.
Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by Dalewyn on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @08:31AM (#42932059)
Power of the purse rests with the House with consent from the Senate, but the execution of the purse is ultimately vested with the Executive.

Congress as the Legislative Branch has no authority to Execute.

Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by UncleMeat on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @08:52AM (#42932318)
Congress has passed laws requiring the executive branch to disperse money in a timely fashion, with a few limited exceptions. USAID was also created in response to a law, which requires the executive branch to perform these functions.
Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by Dalewyn on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @08:58AM (#42932382)
And? Congress can impeach the President if they feel the law isn't being executed. The law also extends nearly limitless benefit of doubt to the President when he is executing his Constitutional duties.
Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by quadragenarian on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @09:33AM (#42932808)
This feels like circular reasoning. In order to execute his (or her) Constitutional Duties, the President must execute laws faithfully. However, the President is extended limitless benefit of the doubt if he decides to not execute the laws put forth by Congress, which means he's not executing his Constitutional duties. So which one is it?
Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by NoGravitas on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @10:06AM (#42933234)
You may, unfortunately, thank the Supreme Court for that bit of circular reasoning, rather than GP. Executives since Nixon have been pushing the line that "if the president does it, it's not illegal", and they finally got a SCOTUS to accept it.
Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by UncleMeat on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @11:56AM (#42935090)
> The law also extends nearly limitless benefit of doubt to the President when he is executing his Constitutional duties.

It does not. In fact, limiting this benefit of the doubt has been a major goal of the conservative legal movement in recent years. If what you say was true then Biden would have had no trouble forgiving student loan debt and requiring generation shifting.

Re:The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Gov... by UltraSane on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @10:33AM (#42933668)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_the_purse#United_Stat...

In the federal government of the United States, the power of the purse is vested in the Congress as laid down in the Constitution of the United States, Article I, Section 9, Clause 7 (the Appropriations Clause) and Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 (the Taxing and Spending Clause).

The power of the purse plays a critical role in the relationship of the United States Congress and the President of the United States, and has been the main historic tool by which Congress has limited executive power.