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Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by creato on Sunday January 19, 2025 @01:26PM (#42759894)
> I don't think I've seen anything like it in a long time. I also don't think an American company would ever do that as it seems "unprofessional."

Have you been paying attention the last few weeks?

NVIDIA: https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/ai-policy/ "As the first Trump Administration demonstrated, America wins through innovation, competition and by sharing our technologies with the world — not by retreating behind a wall of government overreach."

Companies aren't stupid. They know that in order to be successful in today's world, you have to personally fellate Trump. Thanks to the American voters for bringing us this reality.

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by scotty79 on Sunday January 19, 2025 @01:37PM (#42760034)
This all reminds German companies about a 100 years ago, so much.
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by p3rls on Sunday January 19, 2025 @03:52PM (#42761686)
Say what you want about the communists, they at least killed the landlords like they promised
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by whimsicalism on Sunday January 19, 2025 @01:30PM (#42759958)
trump is also just becoming a lot more popular in the tech world after the democratic party decided that their winning strategy would be to villainize tech and emerging west coast values.

i’m no trump supporter but it was pretty obvious for a few years that the dems were sowing the seeds of their own issues

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by pell on Sunday January 19, 2025 @02:08PM (#42760449)
> after the democratic party decided that their winning strategy would be to villainize tech and emerging west coast values.

Trump proposed the TikTok ban and even tried to enforce it via executive action during his first term. He also said he would put Zuckerberg in prison and attacked big tech companies for almost a decade at this point. The reason Silicon Valley is aligning themselves with Trump’s administration is for strategic reasons. If there are any ideological reasons I doubt these would stand the test of pendulum shifts.

Republican speaker Johnson also still wants to enforce the ban and only considers Trump’s interference as a delay to have TikTok sold to a US entity (which the bill explicitly allows as an alternative): https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/speaker-johnson-2-...

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by whimsicalism on Sunday January 19, 2025 @02:28PM (#42760730)
yes, the Trump faction also flirted with anti-tech politics in the 2016-2020 cycle - but there have been shifts since then. i don't disagree with you that a significant part of this alignment is due to strategic reasons - but it doesn't fully explain outsized donations to Trump prior to his election and shifts in donation patterns by regular tech workers. I do think that there has been a real political shift rightwards in SF/SV, especially among the tech elites but percolating downwards.
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by matthewdgreen on Sunday January 19, 2025 @03:41PM (#42761578)
There has definitely been a rightward shift in SV management and ownership. Maybe a lesser shift in individual workers, but it's really hard to tell. And frankly, that hardly merits a footnote when compared to the sums that the wealthiest can spend on elections now.
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by creato on Sunday January 19, 2025 @03:07PM (#42761220)
The shift in SV isn't that much different from the rest of the country, and it's because Democrats are failing to govern in a positive way for anyone that isn't a recent illegal immigrant, petty criminal (or both), or can lay claim to some kind of minority. Even the things that Democrats are "for", like clean energy, are hamstrung by insane environmental or other regulation.
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by spacechild1 on Sunday January 19, 2025 @04:29PM (#42762066)
They don't want those pesky regulations. Marc Andreessen says it openly: https://a16z.com/politics-and-the-future/

This line in particular sums up the cynical stance of these billionaires:

> We are non-partisan, one issue voters: If a candidate supports an optimistic technology-enabled future, we are for them. If they want to choke off important technologies, we are against them.

They simply don't care about society as a whole, they want their businesses to thrive, no matter what.

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by diggan on Sunday January 19, 2025 @01:37PM (#42760046)
With other words, while Silicon Valley founders said and pushed that they actually have ethics, morality and "good for the world" ideas, it wasn't actually true and money+extreme capitalism won in the end.
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by whimsicalism on Sunday January 19, 2025 @01:43PM (#42760124)
Democrats decided they did not like the results of the “anyone can talk to anyone” social media revolution.

I think they should have tried to adapt, they decided to focus their efforts on putting the genie back in the bottle.

Technological progress has made us more affluent and better off. My father grew up in Europe and his family couldn’t even afford shoes for him or education past the third grade. I am wholly uninterested in anti-tech politics or a politics of stagnancy as seems popular in Europe. Democrats need to stop looking to Europe for inspiration and become the party of abundance, redistribution, and human capital investment. How can we make everyone better off, rather than focusing our energies on finding the next bogeyman to blame.

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by blipvert on Sunday January 19, 2025 @04:18PM (#42761951)
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by BriggyDwiggs42 on Sunday January 19, 2025 @04:10PM (#42761864)
Democrats? The government as a whole has been incompetent with regards to tech for years now. That said, there are huge issues with the “anyone can talk to anyone” revolution, namely that some people are a bit easier to talk to and some issues are a bit easier to talk about, and that these are selected on the basis of increasing engagement and use time for advertising. This causes the benefits of said revolution to be buried under a mountain of cynicism and slop.
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by JumpCrisscross on Sunday January 19, 2025 @03:44PM (#42761610)
> Democrats decided they did not like the results of the “anyone can talk to anyone” social media revolution

The ban was and remains deeply bipartisan.

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by Karrot_Kream on Sunday January 19, 2025 @03:56PM (#42761721)
So then by convincing ByteDance to reinstate TikTok, did Trump just spell the end of his popularity, is Trump behaving erratically to reinstate TikTok, or are you projecting because you helped author and canvas for the bill? Moreover if the bill had so much bipartisan support, why did it need to be combined in a foreign aid package to Ukraine rather than stand on its own?

(P.S. Given your deep involvement in the bill and the sheer amount of comments you make on this site trying to convince readers that it's both popular and necessary, I think you should absolutely disclose your position on the bill. I'm a transit and modeshare advocate and I do not discuss specific bills I have helped author and sponsor online without disclaimers.)

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by JumpCrisscross on Sunday January 19, 2025 @04:47PM (#42762243)
> did Trump just spell the end of his popularity

Trump is doing what the law permits, granting a 1-time extension of not more than 90 days. In the meantime, he’ll find a way to remove the national security threat.

> why did it need to be combined in a foreign aid package to Ukraine rather than stand on its own?

This is how all bills are passed. I also advocated for the Ukraine bill; that was the weaker (and far more partisan, though not entirely so) of the two.

> I do not discuss specific bills I have helped author and sponsor online without disclaimers

Cool. I do not. (I’ll disclose my involvement if I need to add gravitas or if there’s a conflict. But it’s not a conflict to be arguing for a thing I advocated for, or vice versa. I’m not professionally in politics, after all.)

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by metamet on Sunday January 19, 2025 @04:49PM (#42762269)
> Moreover if the bill had so much bipartisan support, why did it need to be combined in a foreign aid package to Ukraine rather than stand on its own?

You've got things reversed. The ban is what the Republicans wanted and the Ukraine support was bundled in to take advantage of that. They wanted the Tiktok ban so much they allowed the Ukraine funding (as part of the larger funding bill).

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by Karrot_Kream on Sunday January 19, 2025 @05:04PM (#42762439)
If that's the case then did Trump just lose popularity by doing this or is the idea that Trump's teflon-y nature going to keep consequences off him?
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by JumpCrisscross on Monday January 20, 2025 @09:46AM (#42769245)
> did Trump just lose popularity by doing this

No. Heads up, he wins; tails up, blame Biden.

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by arandomusername on Sunday January 19, 2025 @04:52PM (#42762294)
It's funny how the only time there's something bipartisan is when it's to do Israel's bidding.
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by JumpCrisscross on Sunday January 19, 2025 @04:56PM (#42762338)
> the only time there's something bipartisan is when it's to do Israel's bidding

The gay marriage bill was at Israel’s bidding?

I worked on the TikTok bill. I really don’t care about Israel. While it’s tempting to see everything through the lens of your pet issue, it’s myopic to believe everything is motivated by a single cause, particularly a foreign-policy line.

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by simonw on Sunday January 19, 2025 @05:05PM (#42762450)
Since you worked on the bill, can you clarify if the driving force behind it was national security concerns which have not been revealed to the public?
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by JumpCrisscross on Sunday January 19, 2025 @05:09PM (#42762501)
> if the driving force behind it was national security concerns which have not been revealed to the public?

No. It was national security risks that have been amply disclosed. The Cuban Missile Crisis was still a crisis even if the Soviets didn’t launch.

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by saagarjha on Monday January 20, 2025 @04:09AM (#42766563)
What are the possible capabilities here?
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by JumpCrisscross on Monday January 20, 2025 @09:42AM (#42769194)
See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42738464

This has been publicly litigated well.

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by saagarjha on Thursday January 23, 2025 @05:21AM (#42802600)
Right, but what's the actual demonstration of this? I keep hearing "TikTok can do bad thing" but it's not shown to actually happen and we don't seem interested in making them not do that.
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by arandomusername on Sunday January 19, 2025 @05:15PM (#42762562)
https://theintercept.com/2025/01/09/tiktok-ban-israel-palest...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7xTxAilSF0

Tiktok ban bill was due to it being more pro palestinian. It's no coincidence that most congress members get funded by Israeli lobbyist group.

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by JumpCrisscross on Monday January 20, 2025 @09:48AM (#42769271)
I worked on this bill, and believe I flipped two Senate votes for it. I really couldn’t care less about Palestine.
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by arandomusername on Monday January 20, 2025 @11:07AM (#42770003)
We all know you don't care about Palestine, you care about Israel.
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday January 21, 2025 @03:13AM (#42777653)
> We all know you don't care about Palestine, you care about Israel

Not sure who "we" are, but they're wrong.

It's not a war I have strong views nor knowledge about. I've never visited either place and while I respect people who have strong views on both sides of the debate, my pet war over the last few years has been Ukraine. (Though even there I'm aware enough not to paint everything through the lens of Russian meddling.)

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by segasaturn on Monday January 20, 2025 @01:32PM (#42771584)
Are you a lobbyist for Meta or something?
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday January 21, 2025 @03:12AM (#42777645)
> Are you a lobbyist for Meta or something?

Nope, just worked on it as a private citizen. (Don't have an account with any Meta service.)

In an ideal world, we'd regulate social media. I've tried and failed advocating for privacy legislation--the people who are passionate about privacy in America, unofortunately, also tend towards political nihilism, which makes the cause a political nonstarter. I'm also concerned about Chinese influence over American society, and care about Taiwan's security, so TikTok sort of aligned between my views on privacy, teen mental health and national security.

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by whimsicalism on Monday January 20, 2025 @09:44PM (#42775846)
so bipartisan that the president and de facto leader of one of the parties campaigned against it? sure he switched sides, but nonetheless
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by diggan on Sunday January 19, 2025 @03:16PM (#42761317)
> Democrats decided they did not like the results of the “anyone can talk to anyone” social media revolution.

Wasn't it Republicans that initiated what would eventually lead to the ban of TikTok? Maybe I remember incorrectly.

> How can we make everyone better off

Wasn't it a really long time ago that was the goal in the US? It seems capitalism leads to a very different goal than "redistribute so everyone is better off"

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by metabagel on Sunday January 19, 2025 @01:53PM (#42760259)
The key question is whether you think Nazis have the right to express their views freely. It used to be that everyone agreed this to be the case, but we are in the process of learning a very hard lesson that allowing Nazis the right to express their views freely only gives them power to restrict our speech later on.
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by bigstrat2003 on Sunday January 19, 2025 @02:18PM (#42760605)
On the contrary. I'm not afraid of Nazis, I'm afraid of those who would restrict speech for Nazis. Because once you break the seal, it's simply a matter of time until it's another unpopular thing which gets silenced... and another, and another, until we don't have freedom of speech any more. The road to hell is very much paved with good intentions.
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by etblg on Sunday January 19, 2025 @03:57PM (#42761731)
Me personally? I am pretty afraid of nazis, that's their whole deal, violence on people, that was kind of the whole big problem with them initially and what led to a world war and genocide. A nazi isn't just someone with different viewpoints from my own, it's people who based their whole ideology on violence, against me, my wife, my children, my friends, my coworkers.
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by metabagel on Sunday January 19, 2025 @03:46PM (#42761622)
Certainly, you express what used to be (and probably still is?) conventional wisdom. But, some of us have changed our opinions on this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by slg on Sunday January 19, 2025 @04:22PM (#42762000)
> it's simply a matter of time

How much time? Because the way free speech absolutists talk about these ideas always seem to imply that we are mere moments from a country like Germany collapsing into authoritarianism. What evidence do we have that the US's level of free speech is truly better than a country like Germany which does specifically restrict the speech of Nazis?

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by buildartefact on Sunday January 19, 2025 @04:46PM (#42762229)
I used to believe this vehemently. It has become clear that that’s a notion from a bygone age.

The internet has created a global town square where the loudest voices are the ones that catch people’s attention, regardless of the veracity of their claims. There is no truth any more, only the cult of personality.

Tomorrow the US installs a racist, rapist, treasonous kleptocrat as president because the majority of people are unable to think objectively and swallow his promises at face value, despite every indication that life will be immeasurably worse if you’re not a billionaire oligarch.

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by jmye on Sunday January 19, 2025 @04:55PM (#42762333)
Can you point to a single time that banning the speech of Nazis has led down a vast slippery slope of further speech bans, particularly in a vaguely democratic country?
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by Jensson on Sunday January 19, 2025 @05:25PM (#42762671)
Russia is allegedly attacking Ukraine due to Nazis there. The issue with these things is that you can easily motivate horrible things with the "but we are attacking nazis!" argument, that is why people hate it when you say that.
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by jmye on Tuesday January 21, 2025 @08:11PM (#42787422)
And Russia is transparently lying. “But you call everyone a Nazi” isn’t particularly persuasive - it’s just Republican agitprop.
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by whimsicalism on Sunday January 19, 2025 @02:29PM (#42760744)
i do not agree that this is the key question nor do i find Nazis so compelling that i have to avert my eyes from their speech for risk of becoming convinced myself
Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by meowface on Sunday January 19, 2025 @04:01PM (#42761764)
The problem isn't that they're scary or compelling but that they bring discourse down to its basest level once they comprise a certain proportion of the environment. Imagine if 90% of HN threads were mostly just discussion about if the author of a submission or comment is Jewish, what their ulterior Jewish motives are, and what repercussions they should face in an ideal world. Many clusters of Twitter are now that.*

A lot of people see the culture shift and start posting less or leave, and then the ratio gets worse and worse. Freedom from government restriction of speech is a good thing, but I disagree that this new era calls for throwing out norms of discussion platforms curating their communities' cultures.

I fully acknowledge there are valid, interesting philosophical reasons to host a site like Twitter or 8chan where "if it's legal it's allowed", but on net I think the benefits do not outweigh the costs.

*(Even many 4chan boards are less obnoxious. In part due to its linear format.)

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by yakshaving_jgt on Sunday January 19, 2025 @04:02PM (#42761774)
You’re speaking for yourself now. Millions of [mostly russian but not only] people today are convinced that the extermination of millions of Ukrainians is the morally righteous course of action.

Populations being persuaded into harbouring extremely bad ideas is a thing.

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by intended on Sunday January 19, 2025 @04:42PM (#42762196)
It’s amazing, really. No matter what, the Dems are always wrong.

Trump is a criminal? The Dems are wrong. Trump brings up trans issues during elections? The Dems are wrong. Trump lies constantly? Somehow, the Dems are still wrong.

Let’s be fair: we can only blame the Dems. Because how do you blame a force of nature like Trump? Bring up any substantiative discussion, and you get identity politics and gotchas.

Facts don't matter, because "everyone has their own facts.", even when they dont.

People arent really discussing reality. They're fighting for their teams. But the least thing we can agree, is that the Dems had to have made some mistakes, since they didnt stop it. They didn't win. So the Dems are wrong.

Trump won. So Trump is right. Even if he isnt.

Because we can agree, the dems are wrong.

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by Der_Einzige on Monday January 20, 2025 @01:57AM (#42765746)
This needs to be a song.

The reality distortion field that the world builds around Trump and against democrats is literally insane. I unironically believe the source is an IRL SCP object (they have to exist otherwise no explanation for no cornucopia on the fruit of the loom logo) - and trump lucked out into being in possession of one or being that object!

Biden said it best: The USA has gone through the greatest economic recovery story NEVER TOLD. Democrats do great policy work and NEVER get credit for it.

Obama was a great president, Biden was a great president, Carter was among our very best of presidents, and NONE of them get the damn respect they deserve.

Trump, yet again, on day 1 gets an insanely good economy, an insanely good geopolitical situation, etc. Why? Because of those no good horrible marxist dummicrats!

Trump voters tomorrow will magically gain 100,000$ in their bank account, an extra house, 1$ gas, eggs, and groceries, and 500 more guns. And the day trump walks out in 2028 (if that happens) and a democrat comes in, they will instantiate become papurs again.

Re:TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users by intended on Sunday January 19, 2025 @04:37PM (#42762138)
"Sucking up" implies there’s a meaningful choice—that firms or individuals can realistically be expected to show courage now. But voters chose this, knowingly. Blaming firms for bowing to public will misdiagnoses the issue and wastes emotional energy fighting a false battle.

Whats the realistic alternative? Standing up to Trump? The president who has explicitly said he will retaliate against firms and individuals who oppose him.

The same president who was re-elected even though everyone knew this was coming?

If this bothers you, and you want to address it, focus on identifying the real root cause and work toward changing that.

And if you genuinely believe firms would act differently, make the case. But let’s be honest—how many rational people would stand up to someone who:

- Faces no accountability, - Has the Supreme Court and legislature backing him, - Is in power for a second term, - Commands an incredibly effective political machine (Fox-GOP), - has die-hard voters behind him?