As someone who wants to learn Chinese, I think about it all the time. Watching Chinese shows just isn't as fun for whatever reason. I was telling my wife the other day I have met so many people who credit Friends for why they can speak English.

That's soft power right there.

I've had to resort to watching anime on Netflix with Chinese dubs - anime is good because people actually talk slower and usually use simple language. When I watched Three Body (Chinese version) the dialogue was impenetrable lol

Taiwanese shows are better if you want to learn Chinese. They speak clearly and don’t speak fast like China shows.

Thanks I'll take a look. It will be funny if I end up with a Taiwanese accent around my Dongbei in laws but I've spent enough time in china to remember the mainland accent tbh

Friends is great, but still pretty advanced as English learning goes, with fast speech, and lots of slang and US/90s specific references.

I guess so but it also has slower lines too especially for comedic delivery. The cultural references are good (now dated because Friends is 20-30 years old) because after learning a language, cultural references are next when it comes to fully being able to converse

But it's also highly visual. I forget where I saw it, but someone showed people an episode of Friends without any audio, and they could still understand the plot based on the overly dramatized physical communication.

I'm not surprised. It's extremely accessible in ways I wouldn't necessarily find engaging anymore given my very scarce time for watching media but that kind of accessibility is perfect for a show in a desired second language

Also the humor is very...basic. My theory is a show like Seinfeld with it's double and triple meanings didn't get popular abroad, but Friends and How I met Your Mother did.

I think the simplicity of the humor is the reason.

Three Body is a science fiction television series and I think sci-fi often involves complex vocabulary and abstract concepts, making it a tough choice for language learners

Sure the vocab was hard but also characters like Shi Qiang spoke in a very difficult way to pick up for a non native speaker

What do you mean by "global pop culture" here?

I've never considered there to be one, although I'm open to the idea.

It's easy for me to recognize an Ameican pop culture or an Anglo pop culture, and the favor each show for certain imports over others, but those don't seem nearly so universal as your usage of "global pop culture" suggests.

Latin, Arabic, Russian, Chinese, French, Indian/South Asian, etc each represent huge "pop culture" markets of their own but also each have their own import biases.

> What do you mean by "global pop culture" here?

Encountering a Chinese song playing a cafe in Latin America. A popular movie with global appeal. Or even people being aware of cultural trends. I feel like culturally, China is a bit of a black box.

Latin America is so insular, they don't even really play US songs in cafes. (Of course this varies between countries, Chile has more foreign culture, Peru has less.)

That was just an example off the top of my head. In general I never come across Chinese culture outside of China.

For what it's worth, I've just heard a Chinese song in a random Instagram reel from Pakistan.

For better or worse, I think CCP has long been on the backfoot in international propaganda just because what passes for persuasive narratives in authoritarian contexts falls flat to global audiences fluent in western entertainment and media culture.

Of course they have modernized, but most actual influence obtained thus fair (e.g. international olympic committees covering up investigations, stopping the NBA from venturing criticisms) has come from projection of soft power rather than being on the cultural cutting edge.

I'm resentful for not having BYD here to offer affordable vehicles. The vast numbers of people who are now boxed out of the middle class could desperately use the help of a vehicle that doesn't cost them $700 a month.

I'm not sure what subsidized EVs have to do with cultural influence.

> The complete lack of Chinese influence on global pop culture

The CCP has tried to get their culture out there, it just has not been successful at the visually obvious scale of Japan or Korea. But their culture is definitely getting out there, and I think we often don't spot the Chinese influence on something unless some journalist finds out and writes an article about it.

Some of their influence is leveraged in business deals, with several movies being altered by the demand of the CCP, and these changes persisting in worldwide releases, not just the Chinese-released version of the movies.

Some of their influence is leveraged in video games- Genshin Impact is a famously successful Chinese game. There are some competitive Chinese teams in various pockets of e-sports too. Tencent also owns several video game developers, and occasionally uses their influence to change parts of a game to please the CCP.

There is a Chinese animation industry (print and video), and occasionally they get a worldwide success. I remember being surprised when I found out that "The Daily Life of the Immortal King" was Chinese- you can tell it isn't Japanese but lots of people guess that it is Korean.

I became so interested in ancient Chinese mythology after playing black myth wukong. Also my cousin is watching cDramas all the time and she intends to marry Chinese guy… So I think the soft power is there already, whether we like it or not. but I think it’s good to have competing content instead of being fed whatever powers that be think is good fur us

I heard that game is great! This discussion reminds me of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCCRuUlJ_nA

It basically asks "Why can't China make a movie like this?" Kung Fu Panda was a love letter to Chinese culture, and it connected with people worldwide.

I think it comes down to government censorship. Art is expression and unapproved expression is seen as a threat to a dictatorship.

It makes me sad to think of all the Chinese art we have missed out on because of the insecurity of a government.

I'm not sure if this is a solid argument.

Most of the art, music, literature before the twentieth century were created under censorships of authoritarian regimes, and they don't lack vitality. Creativity often thrives under constraints.

The main difference is the classics were often created by a single person, while modern entertainment are created by large groups through industrial processes. The latter are capital-intensive, and investors are risk-averse. The bigger the market, the bigger the investments, the bigger the risks, and censorship is not insignificant a risk.

I think as the cost of production shrinks with technology, there will be an explosion of "high-production-value" works created by smaller groups or individuals, many from the "soft-authoritarian" countries. Traditional entertainment industries may gradually fade away, or pivot to some new medium.

The authoritarian goverments before the 20th century were child plays compared with the level of censorship modern governments can apply.

Especially when art and experimentation and expression is largely done online and you can create tools for near total control of online spaces.

Government can't create culture and art anymore than a tech company can. They can only allow it to grow and spread, or block it.

Mostly true but the exception is K-Pop, which as I understand was the creation of a project by the South eKorean government. There was a severe financial crisis in the late 1990s where the country almost went bankrupt. Desperately seeking sources of revenue, the government funded K-Pop groups which eventually become a global phenomenon (BTS et al). At least that is what some Koreans have told me.

Funding is one thing, but they didn't create any of it. The people did. A small but important distinction imho.

I think that’s what’s being implied by creating. Whatever people create and is allowed (or tweaked by) under a repressive regime that is. The government sets the guidelines and censorship and the subsequent content has some peculiar characteristics of the government policies.

I am Korean, and what you are saying is a lie created by anti-Korean people in Japan. Do you really think it makes sense for a government experiencing an economic crisis to desperately seek revenue sources and hope to overcome the crisis by funding a cultural industry that hasn't even succeeded yet?

I've always wondered about this, turns out there's a wikipedia entry for it

> To protect the South Korean culture industry, the South Korean Ministry of Culture received a substantial budget increase, allowing for the creation of hundreds of culture industry departments in universities nationwide.[21] It has justified its financial support for Hallyu, estimated to be worth US$83.2 billion in 2012, by linking it to South Korea's export-driven economy.[22]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Wave

It's completely different to say that the government took the lead in an industry that didn't exist before and to say that it provided support to an already successful industry. Of course, what I said was wrong refers to the former. In fact, the government supports all industries to some extent, so that can't be a label.

True that. My wife watched a few Chinese dramas, but they're quite boring compared to k-dramas or japanese shows. I find them annoying and full of propaganda. Only the historical ones are borderline interesting. Also the CCP crackdown on celebrities didn't help.

By contrast, there's now a very good k-drama with Lee Min-ho happening in space or the Gyeongseong Creature horror drama with Park Seo-joon.

I did see some good Chinese movies, mostly out of Hong Kong. Wong Kar-wai directed a bunch of good ones but they all predate Xi's regime and the takeover of HK.

One of my favourite contemporary artists is Ai Weiwei, who has gone missing in 2011 only to finally reappear four years later. I understand he now lives in Portugal. Got his book on my night stand, 1000 Years of Joys and Sorrows.

Or perhaps you haven't encountered Chinese content because of soft suppression of the content from within the US bubble

Do you have any concrete examples of Chinese culture elements as popular as anime that is "supressed" in the US?

I am also interested because I would love to explore it.

Tiktok and communism are the first things that come to mind

TikTok wasn't being supressed and Communist doesn't originate from China.

And TikTok doesn't create content, it distributes it.

And TikTok is banned in China.

I don't buy this narrative, even as a Chinese American.

There are a ton of viral videos on YouTube about people travelling the most beautiful parts of China. Free for everyone to consume.

Chinese movies/shows just kind of suck, especially compared to the quality of Kdramas and anime.

Suppression can only go so far against really impressive works. Consider how even the Iron Curtain had trouble keeping them out, and today's USA has no such walls, but instead, an impressive cultural industry of its own. (Or was that your point ?)

As a Chinese American, this is the real reason people don't know about China.

To be honest, most of the movies/shows China creates sucks. They're Marvel-esque CGI fests with awful storylines.

Meanwhile, Japan and Korea are creating awesome media.

The whole narrative about the US gov trying to "hide" China isn't really true. There are a ton of viral videos on YouTube about how great China is. And we welcome Chinese immigrants every year.

The real problem is that China itself doesn't execute when it comes to soft power.

I think this is one of the main reason Japan gets overwhelmed by tourists every year, their culture has so many fans.

> most of the movies/shows China creates sucks. They're Marvel-esque CGI fests with awful storylines.

since we're here, what are some of the least bad modern Sci-fi/Horror movies/TV shows from China?

Highly recommend Three-Body, the Chinese version of the Three-Body Problem. I enjoyed it much more than the Netflix adaptation, much closer to the source material, and more of a slow burn. Episodes are available on YouTube with subs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-UO8jbrIoM).

Yeah, I mentioned 三体 in a parent comment. It's a great counterpoint to the "high fructose" Netflix version. And interesting to see the American character portrayed by an American actor...dubbed by a Chinese voice actor. (Just be prepared to fast-forward the musical interludes.)

Isn't the disillusionment of the main scientist related to the violent abuse of the CCP (and he loss of faith in humanity) core to the reasoning of why she reached out to the aliens, despite their warning? How do they restructure something so core to the plot?

I think you are a bit too premature: China has at least one(usually dozens) competitor for literally everything America has. You just don't hear about everything in the US.

Think of any industry and there is probably a Chinese competitor that is trying.

Tesla -> BYD

Google -> Baidu

Starbucks -> Luckin Coffee

IMAX -> China Film Giant Screen or maybe POLYMAX

Finally Disney -> Possibly Beijing Enlight Pictures

They released an animated film Ne Zha in 2019 that according to wikipedia was "the highest-grossing animated film in China,[16] the worldwide highest-grossing non-U.S. animated film,[17] and the second worldwide highest-grossing non-English-language film of all time at the time of its release. With a gross of over $725 million,[18] it was that year's fourth-highest-grossing animated film, and China's all time fourth-highest-grossing film.[19]"

[1]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ne_Zha_(2019_film)

Some great info here [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2J0pRJSToU

Ok I'll admit part of the reason people don't hear about these companies is that they are still too half baked. But look at BYD, they started off producing junk but this Chinese mindset of grinding and rapid iteration has put them to be super successful today. Why couldn't that kind of happen with their Disney competitor?

Another thing that might be happening is the literal closing off of the world into two spheres. Western US led and Eastern Chinese led. As we are seeing with BYD, they are taking over all the non western markets(and some western as well) but the US has essentially slammed the door shut on them (they haven't actually but made it impossible to enter with their tariffs). Maybe the Disney competitor will take hold in the non western aligned world?

Honestly its a shame they are not open or democratic. The idea of watching or even being part of a rising country that is building their empire is fascinating to watch. Will they collapse due to demographics or these fundamental issues like communism or will they make it? Unfortunately for many people, the only option is to stick with the US and work to keep the ship afloat as there is no place for them in China.

Chinese nation state hacking groups also literally break into American Fortune 500 companies and US aerospace/defense companies to steal R&D and tech to then use themselves + give to private Chinese industries. That sure does help them a ton when they dont have to do any research and can just steal and copy instead.

Thats true...you can only go so far with that though and thats probably why many of their industries haven't really met the par yet.

But at the same time they have eclipsed the west in certain industries such as commercial nuclear. That mentality is there in their industries that havent met the par yet and that was a major point I was making in my previous comment.

As far as I understand, they originally licensed the AP1000 but expanded upon the design enough that they have ownership over the new design and they use that now.

[1]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_China#Reactor...

We also see it in BYD. The Seagull is a symphony of cost efficiency and vertical integration that western companies are now studying.

[2]: https://youtu.be/izvdO-zdlKg?t=29

It might help, but the Soviet Union did something like that too, and look at what became of it.

I don't know well Beijing Enlight Pictures makes for a Chinese Disney, but I will say that Big Fish & Begonia was a good show.

“Chinese movies” are popular in Vietnam for example, so not fair to say they have no global reach.

Those two share a border, how does that show global reach? I would be surprised if a country didn’t influence its neighbors in some ways.

This is precisely what i'm talking about. A country of 1.4b with a film industry that gets billions in state subsidies and they best they can do is mild popularity of a few films on their physical borders.

Censorship is the enemy of art.

They are yes but I'd say that the Korean ones are even more popular.

I'd say that in the last two years China has advanced quite a big step with video-games.

I only know of Wukong, are there other ones worth checking out?

Recently Marvel Rivals came out and became really popular (developed by Chinese studio NetEase Games). Other than that, there have been talks about Ubisoft going bankrupt and being sold to a Chinese company, but those are rumors as far as I can tell.

The only good Chinese language films were all filmed in Hong Kong, directed by people like Wong Kar-Wai. In the Mood for Love is widely considered one of the greatest films ever made.

Chinese cultural (and censor) sensibilities are why big budget US movies are almost universally boring and terrible these days. Authoritarian societies aren’t exactly known for creating good art.

There are many good Chinese language films, not all of them Cantonese. You're forgetting about Taiwanese directors (Edward Yang, Tsai Ming-liang, Hou Hsiao-Hsien) and mainland sixth generation directors (Jia Zhangke, Lou Ye). There are also works by less known authors such as Bi Gan, Hu Bo, Xinyuan Zheng Lu - very unique and impressive.

One should not throw around ignorant blanket statements. There's a wealth of amazing Chinese language movie made outside of Hong-Kong, and yes, good artists can exist under authoritarian regimes, a prominent example of which would be Soviet cinema and literature.

You could add to that classical music: the Soviet Union had some of the greatest composers of the 20th Century.

Music was the thing that was allowed. We have no idea what other art was lost due to fear and paranoia.

> The complete lack of Chinese influence on global pop culture

Hah, but in 3D fantasy animation - called Donghua - China has every other nation beat handily - even Japan. There are 3D Chinese animations shows like "Soul Land" and "Battle Through The Hewavens", "Swallowed Star", etc that a significant number of people watch all over the world.

This definitely wins by numbers - my local anime site features chinese 3d shows too and there’s a lot of them. But the viewership isn’t that good still, judging by the comments and voting.

"Soul Land" got animated? Which series? I hope the first, the second (or third?) series with that million-year-old white caterpillar was awful.

In any case: that manhua is one of the least bad stories, but the singular focus on "advancing to the next level" (incredibly popular in Chinese stories, for some reason) gets quite dull after a while. It's just that "Soul Land" manages to somewhat mask it; reading much of anything else Chinese is like going up an endless staircase (get trashed; level-up; reclaim face by trashing the baddies; loop).

Both Soul Land 1 and Soul Land 2 are now 3D animated. Soul Land 2 3D animation is breathtakingly gorgeous esp with 4k.

You can find them both on youtube under tencent animation. And a dozen free sites. Here is a Google Drive Link to 4k episodes of Soul Land 2

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1lfIz6Sie2-0D58d6DPCH...

Well, there's Three Body Problem (I watched the Chinese 三体 series) – but I guess the exception proves the rule.

The fact that the IP for that amazing book was bogged down in political and mafia-connected controversy, delaying it's global spread for almost a decade, that all kind of proves my point.

What do you mean by "global" pop culture? Maybe you mean "the west"/European/American pop culture. Being Vietnamese, I and my friends grew up with Journey to the West which at the time was bigger than Star Wars, Three kingdoms which is a lot lot bigger than Game of Thrones, and a lot of Jin Yong's movie adaptations. Star Wars the force is like normal thing in Jin Yong's novels. It's not a "complete" lack of. Sure you have heard of Monkey King, Lu Bu or Guan Yu, Cao Cao? They also won an Oscar long before Korean did. Sure they lose to Japanese's Pokemon but everyone lose to Pokemon really not just China.

China's pop culture having moderate success on directly boarding countries is not really proof that I am wrong. Given it's size, i'd say that's an example of how it fails.

Maybe it's late but no, China's pop culture is not having a "moderate" success on neighboring countries because they tried and failed but because those neighbors actively resist it. They had culturally dominated over neighboring countries like Japan, Korea, Vietnam for hundred of years. See every Korean "historical" movies and you see Chinese culture everywhere. What you're seeing now is the active effort of those countries to stay as far far away from Chinese culture as possible. Imagine you successfully invade China and getting assimilated as the result. That's the Mongols. Thanks to Persia or whatever middle country between China and Europe, Europe did not get infected by Chinese culture. Now ironically thanks to Trump the west is resisting China's dominance before getting infected like Pokemon or KPOP or K-drama.