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Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by bombcar on Sunday December 15, 2024 @06:35PM (#42426742)
Amusingly enough, if you buy a Visio, reject the agreement during setup - it turns into a dumb TV.
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by freedomben on Sunday December 15, 2024 @06:52PM (#42426818)
Can anyone confirm this? If this is true, this is huge news and highly consequential
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by lilhenry on Sunday December 15, 2024 @07:12PM (#42426899)
It’s the same with Hisense tvs
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by Loughla on Sunday December 15, 2024 @08:44PM (#42427291)
Can confirm. If you don't give vizio Wi-Fi access it functions as a dumb tv.

This is why I purchase Vizio instead of other brands. I don't need my television loaded with a ton of apps I'll never use.

Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by rendaw on Sunday December 15, 2024 @11:45PM (#42428071)
That's different than what GP said though - that you need to reject the agreement to get it to be a dumb TV. Which is it?
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by Loughla on Monday December 16, 2024 @07:17PM (#42437014)
Is the same thing. The agreement is giving it Wi-Fi access. If you say no, you deny Wi-Fi.
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by monksy on Sunday December 15, 2024 @10:48PM (#42427866)
Later firmwares will still try to push you to the smart tv display if there is no signal for 5 seconds to get you to setup the wifi.
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by echelon on Sunday December 15, 2024 @10:59PM (#42427910)
They'll probably install cellular connectivity or brick the devices if they can't connect.
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by tmcdos on Tuesday December 17, 2024 @04:14AM (#42439732)
Then we simply won't buy TVs and will only watch computer.
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by soared on Sunday December 15, 2024 @11:55PM (#42428119)
TCL is the same, as are likely every brand of TV. The smart tv hate is overhyped. All my TVs are dumb because they were smart but never got WiFi access.
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by cjaackie on Monday December 16, 2024 @01:29AM (#42428483)
I think this is the way, just don’t give it wifi access! Fun story, my sony has android tv and can play MKV files off a flash drive (eg. a non-streaming tv show), but the built in player is horrible (drops frames?). Turns out I was able to find the right version of VLC player and adb the apk over the Ethernet port! Really worked a treat.

This avoided connecting it to wifi, but I still got what I wanted out of it.

Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by jqpabc123 on Monday December 16, 2024 @09:32AM (#42431292)
TCL is the same, as are likely every brand of TV.

They are not all the same --- even within the same manufacturer.

A lot of newer firmwares will launch into setup every time you power up if access is not configured. The TV configuration data is most likely being saved/retrieved from their cloud. This serves as their connectivity test.

Without wifi setup, my new Hisense 4k "budget" model does this *unless* you run it in "store" mode.

Dealing with setup on every power up is possible --- but obviously highly annoying over time --- and this is by design.

The manufacturers desperately want the data collection $. It's the only way some of them make money.

Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by mixdup on Sunday December 15, 2024 @07:22PM (#42426943)
you can also just not connect it to a network
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by Scoundreller on Sunday December 15, 2024 @07:25PM (#42426958)
Just a matter of time before they start taking data updates and ads over an ATSC or FM subchannel.
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by acdha on Sunday December 15, 2024 @07:44PM (#42427042)
My money’s on a joint venture with Comcast, Cox, Verizon, et al. to use the Wi-Fi access points their routers operate – even if you use your own router and block them, your neighbors almost certainly don’t. Most them already have business ties and would love to have better ad targeting data.
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by SR2Z on Monday December 16, 2024 @01:48AM (#42428594)
Man, at that point I would open up the back and snip/desolder the antenna itself. I hate ads on my TV, ESPECIALLY when I've already paid for the damn thing!
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by bttrpll on Monday December 16, 2024 @07:57PM (#42437237)
Sounds similar to Amazon Sidewalk...
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by kelnos on Sunday December 15, 2024 @07:34PM (#42426999)
That's highly speculative, but even if that did end up happening, the smart TVs sold today wouldn't magically gain that capability, especially if you keep it off the network and never update it.
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by notyourwork on Sunday December 15, 2024 @07:33PM (#42426996)
Or 5g with a SIM card.
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by sigio on Sunday December 15, 2024 @07:55PM (#42427083)
Fine with that, free data on my modem
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by M95D on Monday December 16, 2024 @02:34AM (#42428812)
You won't be able to remove it. It will be an eSIM.
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by GauntletWizard on Sunday December 15, 2024 @09:52PM (#42427597)
Already happened with cars. That's what OnStar was/is.
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by wkat4242 on Sunday December 15, 2024 @08:29PM (#42427228)
I heard that some 2024 models refuse to go through the setup wizard without internet access. Not sure what happens if you disconnect it after setup though. But my Amazon Fire Stick already refuses to do anything without internet even though I could stream locally with vlc.
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by hedora on Sunday December 15, 2024 @10:01PM (#42427656)
That’s a solid reason to return the tv, though it’s probably worth it to check online before purchasing one.
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by bryanrasmussen on Monday December 16, 2024 @04:33AM (#42429446)
I wonder if this is a market specific thing, that is to say if it is turned on or off depending on which market you're in. For example I wonder if there are pertinent regulations applying in EU, if so I would expect it were turned off in EU.
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by bombcar on Monday December 16, 2024 @10:54AM (#42432172)
I can confirm that at least the V4K43M-08 and the V4K50M-08 don't do that.

(It kind of implies you need to continue and update, but you can just go to HDMI and it doesn't bother you anymore.)

Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by kotaKat on Monday December 16, 2024 @07:45AM (#42430501)
TCL’s agreements say you’re not allowed to do that.

https://www.tcl.com/us/en/roku-tv/eula

“If you do not agree to this EULA, you do not have the right to use the Television or the Software. If you are within the allowable time period for returns under the applicable return policy, you may return the Television to your seller for a refund, subject to the terms of such return policy. You should perform a factory reset before you return it to erase data that may be stored on the Television.”

Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by reginald78 on Monday December 16, 2024 @08:17AM (#42430686)
The more nefarious play would be to have the TV stop functioning if the EULA is rejected but only after the return period has passed.
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by EMIRELADERO on Monday December 16, 2024 @12:51PM (#42433387)
That rubbish is probably unenforceable anyway.

That being said, this is the first time I've ever seen an EULA be this brazen and predatory. Claiming that I'm not allowed to use the entire device because I don't agree to some post-sale contract? In writing? Are you sure you want to do that TCL?!?!?

Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by jqpabc123 on Monday December 16, 2024 @01:48PM (#42433976)
That rubbish is probably unenforceable anyway.

It may depend on your jurisdiction but here in the USA, I'm pretty sure it's legal because they offer a full refund if you chose not to accept.

There are alternative ways to coerce users into playing along. For example, simply store/retrieve TV configuration in the cloud. Without connectivity configured, the TV starts over from scratch in device setup on every power up.

And connectivity obviously opens the possibility for other uses.

Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by EMIRELADERO on Monday December 16, 2024 @03:01PM (#42434773)
The reason why it's unenforceable is probably unconscionability. There is no value that the contract provides that wouldn't exist if there was no contract. You have a right to use hardware you own and the software that comes with it, just because you bought the device. It's not the EULA that allows you to use the TV and software, simply having it in your legal posession means you have the right to use it.
Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by FireBeyond on Tuesday December 17, 2024 @12:13AM (#42438532)
> I'm pretty sure it's legal because they offer a full refund if you chose not to accept.

They offer you the opportunity to get a refund from the retailer, subject to that retailer's return policies, which may mean "open box" restocking fees, time limitations or similar.

That is not the same thing.

Re:Why Dumb TVs Deserve a Comeback by jbritton on Monday December 16, 2024 @03:42PM (#42435199)
I won’t buy Sony TVs because their EULA says you have to indemnify Sony.