News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by cocacola1 on Thursday December 05, 2024 @08:22PM (#42334999)
I don't think the shooter could get a fair trial in the US because I'm not sure they could find a jury to convict them. I don't think I've seen a shooting that's been so devoid of any sympathy for the victim. Looking inward, though, I find myself more intrigued at the reaction than horrified by the killing.
Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by skepticATX on Thursday December 05, 2024 @08:43PM (#42335197)
The loudest opinions surface. I wouldn’t take lack of public sympathy to mean that the average American condones this type of behavior.

I am no more sympathetic than I am towards the many people killed each day in the US, but I think the assassination and the subsequent justification of it because he was a small cog in the system is abhorrent. And I hope that the majority of the country feels the same way.

Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by harimau777 on Thursday December 05, 2024 @09:00PM (#42335351)
Whether or not the assassination is justified, I don't think it makes sense to call him a small cog. He's the leader of one of the largest health insurance companies in America.
Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by cadamsau on Thursday December 05, 2024 @09:27PM (#42335563)
As much as I hate to point it out, it’s not so simple.

He had a legally enforceable mandate to maximize shareholder value. There’s some wiggle room in how that’s accomplished, but not as much as it seems from the outside.

That does make him, much as I hate to say it, a small cog.

Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by mingus88 on Thursday December 05, 2024 @09:46PM (#42335723)
It’s funny to me that so often on HN we have discussions about making ethical choices in who we work for and which projects we contribute to, yet the sentiment on this CEO is honestly the most sympathetic I have seen in any comment section

He chose to take the role. He profited from it massively and did more to perpetuate it than any other single individual at the company.

If we were talking about a developer who was writing software for drone bombs wiping out families, yeah maybe that’s a cog. But still there would be no shortage of judgement on that choice of profession

It’s plainly obvious that insurance companies are not good faith actors working to help people. They lobbied for this system, they are the beneficiaries of it, and they are reaping what they’ve sown

Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by cocacola1 on Thursday December 05, 2024 @10:15PM (#42335895)
But from the assassins point of view, the system is abstract (therefore unshootable) while Brian Thompson was a man (therefore shootable).
Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by davidcbc on Thursday December 05, 2024 @09:41PM (#42335683)
Wow, it really is a shame he was forced into this job and had no agency.
Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by cadamsau on Thursday December 05, 2024 @10:13PM (#42335891)
Nature abhors a vacuum. If not this dude, would’ve been someone else.
Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by revscat on Thursday December 05, 2024 @09:36PM (#42335649)
[flagged]
Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by cadamsau on Thursday December 05, 2024 @10:21PM (#42335935)
Justice is subjective. What is a crime is subjective.

Hence we have laws - an eternal, never perfect project to find an agreed definition of justice.

Abandoning centuries of precedent of law happens in some places from time to time and they’re not places you’d live by choice.

Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by sundaeofshock on Friday December 06, 2024 @06:11AM (#42338660)
There is no legal mandate to maximize shareholder value. That’s just an excuse used to justify sociopathic behavior.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/shareholder-value.asp

Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by throw0101d on Friday December 06, 2024 @07:46AM (#42339311)
> He had a legally enforceable mandate to maximize shareholder value.

[citation needed]

There is no legal basis for this:

* https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2012/06/26/the-shareholder-v...

* https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/09/09/how-t...

* https://evonomics.com/maximizing-shareholder-value-dumbest-i...

It is simply one view that just happened to become popular during the Reagan years and has continued on:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_doctrine

And while we're at it, shareholders are not the owners of a corporation:

* https://www.currentaffairs.org/news/2021/12/who-actually-own...

Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by rrrrrrrrrrrryan on Thursday December 05, 2024 @09:28PM (#42335574)
Literally one of the biggest cogs in this machine.
Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by smitty1e on Thursday December 05, 2024 @09:37PM (#42335660)
What assassination would be "justified"?

This tragedy in the same city that could potentially throw the book at a Daniel Penny...

Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by cocacola1 on Thursday December 05, 2024 @09:43PM (#42335700)
> What assassination would be "justified"?

I think it depends where ones sympathies lay.

Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by smitty1e on Friday December 06, 2024 @09:16PM (#42346710)
Assassination assumes some premeditation.

I can at least grasp killing in some sort of immediate self-defense situation.

However, assassination seems a slippery slope to some anarchy that is unlikely to please anyone this side of Hell.

Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by cocacola1 on Thursday December 05, 2024 @09:04PM (#42335391)
> The loudest opinions surface. I wouldn’t take lack of public sympathy to mean that the average American condones this type of behavior.

I'm not sure I agree with you there. The indifference in some quarters, celebration in others, across either side of the political divide insofar as I've seen, leads me to believe that in some cases, the well of sympathy is running dry – or, worse, has run dry.

Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by bufferoverflow on Thursday December 05, 2024 @11:49PM (#42336432)
For the jury to convict you need all jurors to agree.

From what I've seen, 99% of feedback is of "scumbag deserved it" flavor.

Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by wongarsu on Thursday December 05, 2024 @08:37PM (#42335144)
If the shooter is ever caught he will probably die while "resisting arrest". A trial gives him a platform, and as you say a jury of his peers is unlikely to convict him.
Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by scarfaceneo on Friday December 06, 2024 @05:27AM (#42338352)
Stakes will be too high for that. The risk of that backfiring will be immense.

Well, there’s always the chance of claiming the shooter got away, and be lying in a ditch somewhere

Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by hintymad on Thursday December 05, 2024 @09:57PM (#42335794)
This sentiment reminds me of the movie Law Abiding Citizen. Gerald Butler's role Clyde Shelton could've single-handedly avenged his family from the get-go, yet he chose to also take his vengeance on the justice system as well. Yet somehow many viewers still think that Clyde was righteous and it was a pity that Jamie Foxx's role Nick Rice didn't get punished enough.
Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by smitty1e on Thursday December 05, 2024 @09:36PM (#42335644)
> not sure they could find a jury to convict them

A trial should be about setting forth the law and the facts and letting the jury handle any relevant "leaky abstractions".

It's fairly clear that the act was illegal. If the facts conclusively show that J. Random Somebody pulled the trigger, then conviction should be the non-leaky return from the jury() function.

But, then, IANAL, and our legal system has seemed less than water-tight of late, so we'll see.

Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by davidcbc on Thursday December 05, 2024 @09:44PM (#42335709)
Jury nullification exists
Re:Assassination Is a Leaky Abstraction by mostlysimilar on Friday December 06, 2024 @12:56PM (#42342233)
Humans aren't computers.