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Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by weitendorf on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @12:47AM (#42123273)
To properly compete with Google search you have to:

1. Create your own index/crawl and true search engine on top of it, rather than delegating that back to bing or Google. In doing so, solve or address all the related problems like SEO/spam, and cover the “long tail” (expensive part)

2. Monetize it somehow to afford all of the personnel/hardware/software costs. Probably with your own version of Google’s ad products.

3. Solve user acquisition. Note that Google’s user acquisition process involves multiB/yr contracts with Apple and huge deals with other vendors who control the “top of funnel” like Mozilla Firefox, and that this is the sole purpose of chrome/android/chromebook/etc who you’ll never be able to make a deal with. You will probably at the very minimum need to implement your own platform (device, OS, browser alone probably won’t cut it).

4. Solve the bootstrap problem of getting enough users for people to care about letting you index their site, without initially being able to index a lot of sites, because you are not important enough.

5. Somehow pull all of this off in plain site of Google (this would take many years to build both technically and in terms of users) without them being able to properly fend you off

6. Somehow pull all of this off in spite of the web/web search seeming like it’s going to die off or fade into irrelevance

OR you can dedicate a decade of your life to something more likely to succeed.

Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by WalterBright on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @02:21AM (#42123651)
I've heard more or less the same thing said about IBM, Walmart, Microsoft, etc.

There is one way to compete with Google search. Google search is a general search engine. But what if you only wanted medical information? information about cars? information about physics? electronics? history? etc.

Specializing makes for a much smaller scope of the problem, and being specialized means it could deliver more useful results.

For example, imdb.com. I don't ask google about movie stuff, I go to imdb.com because it specializes in movie info.

Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by MichaelZuo on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @08:39AM (#42125976)
There are already extensive databases with search functions in most industries…?

Some of them charge a lot for access but they certainly exist.

Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by bool3max on Thursday November 14, 2024 @05:14AM (#42134723)
I never go to IMDb directly as both it and its search function are noticeably slower than Google’s. So I just tend to Google “<movie name> IMDb” and click the first result.
Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by arrakark on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @01:38AM (#42123481)
I'd like to add to your #5. If Google deems you a legitimate threat, then they can just de-crapify their own search for a bit by going back to their old algo. It's extremely easy for them to fight back.
Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by Maakuth on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @05:35AM (#42124833)
Is that true though? I think a bit part of the algorithm evolution is to combat undesirable forms of SEO. I would rolling back the algorithm to some older generation would make the results quite spammy.
Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by johnisgood on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @09:25AM (#42126335)
That would be a victory for users.
Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by teddyh on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @11:04AM (#42127225)
A temporary reprieve, more like. Google will just wait for the competitor to fail and then go back to their old ways.
Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by johnisgood on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @06:11PM (#42131249)
Yeah, that is what I meant. :(
Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by JumpCrisscross on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @11:19PM (#42133130)
> If Google deems you a legitimate threat, then they can just de-crapify their own search for a bit by going back to their old algo. It's extremely easy for them to fight back.

One, the easiest way for them to fight back is to buy you. Two, you're writing off the Innovator's Dilemma that has put them into this mess. Correcting course means giving up a lot of ad revenue and, with it, market cap.

Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by dr_kiszonka on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @02:52AM (#42123788)
I often wonder if banning (or very strongly penalizing) websites with affiliate links would largely get rid of spam results. Sure, some very useful websites have affiliate links, but perhaps it would be worth it to at least let users hide them?
Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by haccount on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @03:00AM (#42123828)
The solution is to force feed all affiliate linked sites into a living archive LLM that digests them into a summary stripped of all links.

You run this bloated mass as a co-engine to your search. If you stumble upon any of the digested sites or articles you just have the site-eater blob regurgitate a html re-creation locally. They get no traffic, you get whatever they wrote purged of all links and with optional formatting to remove the fluff BS copywrite that many of these sites pad the tiny core of usefulness with.

Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by ricardo81 on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @03:21AM (#42123937)
I don't think it's a solution. The average person seems to already have a strong dislike of ads, or paying for something that would otherwise be free (likely funded by ads or aff links)

A solution could be more than one algorithm being used to rank results, i.e. other engines, other rules. They'll likely use many of the signals available to them that Google uses for quality and relevance, but highly unlikely a genuine alternative search would rank them exactly the same- and much more unlikely an SEO could rank well in multiple engines.

The aff links aren't the problem, it's the proliferation of pages that are created solely to rank and get the links clicked on. Sometimes the content is useful, sometimes it's padded nonsense.

Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by carlosjobim on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @08:14AM (#42125785)
> You will probably at the very minimum need to implement your own platform (device, OS, browser alone probably won’t cut it).

What do you mean? Google gained dominance just being a dot com URL. This in a time when competitors were already very well established.

Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by kbolino on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @09:11AM (#42126238)
Google got big when being a dot-com URL meant something and the primary way the average person accessed the Internet was through a desktop PC. Neither of those things is true anymore.
Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by carlosjobim on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @12:14PM (#42127935)
That's why you got to have an app. People install more apps than ever before, it's completely normal.
Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by kbolino on Thursday November 14, 2024 @09:44AM (#42136547)
I don't think people associate search with an app. Search is something built in to the operating system or browser (a distinction which is disappearing too).
Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by carlosjobim on Thursday November 14, 2024 @01:28PM (#42139430)
People use apps more than they use a browser. It's not a big deal to reform search to be an app, it will be natural. People listen to podcasts without knowing anything about mp3 files or file systems, they edit and upload their photos without knowing about jpegs, etc.
Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by nprateem on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @08:32AM (#42125920)
You missed out the only thing that's actually important: give users a compelling reason to use your site over Google.

Google's dominance will never be upended by an incremental improvement.

Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by n_ary on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @11:21AM (#42127391)
How do you let the 99.999% of the population know that your site is better? I have seen friends and family now directly search in FB, if it does not return anything satisfactory, they open the very default browser that came with their device and type the query in the address bar, now whatever the default search engine is on their device that came preset gets the traffic.

Only people I saw manually typing the url are my office colleagues(mostly engineers of some sort), even management does the same(skipping the FB part obviously) and you can see it when they are sharing their screen and they want to search for something.

To pull people out of google moat, first step is becoming their default search engine.

Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by nprateem on Thursday November 14, 2024 @08:40AM (#42136043)
This is backwards. The first step is innovating and creating a radically better search experience. This is then easy to market (and is likely to spread by word of mouth). Users love and it becomes the main way they search.

Eg see how chatgpt grew

Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by gregw134 on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @10:19AM (#42126762)
Imo you need to do all of this, plus be compelling different. Nobody is going to beat Google playing Google's game.
Re:Two Upstart Search Engines Are Teaming Up to Take on Google by Yeul on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @09:39PM (#42132602)
The Chinese did it. Nationalism is a powerful force.