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Re:Intel might be too big to fail by commandar on Sunday November 03, 2024 @11:29AM (#42033971)
The option is not a binary between "let it fail" and "no strings attached bailout."

If things get bad enough for Intel, the precedent that makes the most sense is to follow the model that was used with GM: the company enters bankruptcy, existing investors and creditors are wiped out, and a new corporate entity backed by the fed.gov steps in and assumes the assets and operations of the company. Once things have sufficiently stabilized, the government can then divest its ownership in the company.

Intel is economically and strategically important enough that just letting it collapse without a plan to pick up the pieces is a serious footgun. We have a framework for handling this kind of situation that has been shown to work without rewarding those who caused the problem. It'd be silly not to use it.

Re:Intel might be too big to fail by PopePompus on Sunday November 03, 2024 @12:05PM (#42034266)
It's not just the investors and creditors that need to be wiped out. Above all else the managers need to be fired, with no bonuses or golden parachutes.
Re:Intel might be too big to fail by tester756 on Sunday November 03, 2024 @12:30PM (#42034489)
Which manager receives golden parachute? wtf?
Re:Intel might be too big to fail by nothercastle on Sunday November 03, 2024 @01:00PM (#42034732)
Executive mis management is why companies fail. The majority of the bad decisions are made at the executive level.
Re:Intel might be too big to fail by tester756 on Sunday November 03, 2024 @03:29PM (#42035884)
I'm asking which managers are receiving golden parachute.

Managers and executives are different groups of people.

Re:Intel might be too big to fail by Gibbon1 on Sunday November 03, 2024 @04:46PM (#42036338)
The 'the only reason a company exists is to make money for the stockholders' is why we're in this mess right now. Because that's the regime management is operating under. And they are delivering what's demanded. Yeah management is looting companies to the detriment of their long term health. But that's allowed because it aligns their incentives with predatory capitalists.
Re:Intel might be too big to fail by nothercastle on Sunday November 03, 2024 @06:09PM (#42036854)
Stockholders are secondary to c suite. The executives are looting from everyone stockholders included
Re:Intel might be too big to fail by electricwire on Sunday November 03, 2024 @12:53PM (#42034683)
For some hires, they wont sign on without penalties for early dismissal
Re:Intel might be too big to fail by stogot on Sunday November 03, 2024 @10:35PM (#42038203)
Who?
Re:Intel might be too big to fail by s1artibartfast on Sunday November 03, 2024 @02:42PM (#42035568)
Making the investors live with market consequences is the only way to hold managers accountable for performance.

Everyone wants better management, but it wont magically solve itself. Those with the power to drive that change need to have an incentive to do so.

Re:Intel might be too big to fail by aitchnyu on Monday November 04, 2024 @05:08AM (#42040116)
Umm, is there a line drawn so that a middle class investor doesnt lose his money? Same for a lower level manager who isnt independently wealthy.
Re:Intel might be too big to fail by AtlasBarfed on Sunday November 03, 2024 @12:23PM (#42034422)
Sigh, I'm sure there is zero consideration for a antitrust-style breakup. All I saw on a quick scan was "hey does any other company want to acquire parts of them" which is just another way to say "does anyone want to reduce competition even more".

I get that there is probably only one top-end fab in Intel and that would be hard to split across two entities.

But if you split Intel into three entities, they might (gasp) hire a bunch of the engineers that have steadily fled intel or be chopped off in shortsighted layoff rounds. You might get (gasp) innovation.

If you give all three the access rights to Intel's IP, things would probably be FINE in the long run. Give three separate companies a couple fabs and the IP, and see what happens. Intel has FIFTEEN fabs. So hand five to each of them.

Intel is a shell because existing management is financial "wizards" and war-on-labor MBAs that are trying to manipulate the stock price to hit options targets.

If you split the companies, they have to compete on engineering, or they die. You can probably also wipe away a lot of the management because the companies will have to do "real work" in the medium run and their "skillsets" won't really apply.

The MBA types will all say that's impossible. IMO that's why we should do it, because all the people that failed the industry and company are opposed to it.

Re:Intel might be too big to fail by kranke155 on Sunday November 03, 2024 @12:46PM (#42034622)
The dichotomy is useful when people want to manipulate the public.

It’s either bailout or not.

Re:Intel might be too big to fail by hedora on Sunday November 03, 2024 @01:27PM (#42034970)
The GM bailout was an unmitigated disaster. Their cars are uncompetitive garbage to this day.

When they accidentally make something their customers like (the Bolt, CarPlay), upper management intervenes and discontinues it.

The US would be much better off if the engineers and factories they are squandering were allocated to other companies.

Re:Intel might be too big to fail by ac29 on Sunday November 03, 2024 @10:01PM (#42038030)
A new Bolt is coming next year.
Re:Intel might be too big to fail by consteval on Tuesday November 05, 2024 @12:57PM (#42053705)
I don't understand why they discontinued the bolt before the new one comes out. Who does that? You have a cash cow, the assembly lines are already running, just... do nothing.
Re:Intel might be too big to fail by marcosdumay on Sunday November 03, 2024 @01:30PM (#42034994)
That's what "let it fail" means. That's classical bankruptcy.
Re:Intel might be too big to fail by paulddraper on Sunday November 03, 2024 @02:00PM (#42035251)
Are using GM as a SUCCESS story?

Haven't seen that before.

Re:Intel might be too big to fail by stego-tech on Sunday November 03, 2024 @05:45PM (#42036719)
Admittedly my language was deliberately more inflammatory than it had to be, because I wanted to challenge folks to basically post what you just did. Rather than an endless reform-a-palooza, seizing upon current apathy to champion “let it fail” forces folks to reckon with the reality that nothing is permanent, and if the status quo is unworkable, how do we destroy and rebuild in a constructive way?

Excellent response, gave you the upvote so others will hopefully read it.

Re:Intel might be too big to fail by hakfoo on Sunday November 03, 2024 @07:20PM (#42037263)
Conrail might be a better alternative model. It really did succeed well enough to re-float and become a competitive endeavour.

The state probably did a better job than a private takeover could have because: - They had effectively infinite backstop-- they could afford to spend years and front load a lot of costs to fix the mess - They had a mandate to restructure the sector beyond a single company. I'd expect a nationalized Intel would have an easier time pivoting to new models, while private investors might be too afraid of killing their current golden geese for, say, a full fab spin-off or becoming a more aggressive x86 licensor.