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Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by hu3 on Tuesday October 29, 2024 @05:47PM (#41989749)
He would have to have AGI proof to ask for this unprecedented kind of investing money.

And even them it would have to be split during a decade or two. And even then.

What's the military budget of USA?

Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by onlyrealcuzzo on Tuesday October 29, 2024 @05:50PM (#41989777)
It doesn't matter what the military budget is.

Most of it is spent on personnel and operation.

You'd want to know only what the procurement is - which is ~$146B: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_...

And most of that is part of Gross Fixed Capital Formation already...

Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by ipaddr on Tuesday October 29, 2024 @08:11PM (#41990785)
What is dark budget look like these days.
Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by ChumpGPT on Tuesday October 29, 2024 @10:09PM (#41991289)
Dark budget? They can't even supply Ukraine with enough ammo and weapons to defend themselves and the DoD is already squealing that they are running out of everything. Dark budget..hahahaha...good one....
Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by MichaelZuo on Tuesday October 29, 2024 @10:53PM (#41991543)
How is that relevant?

It seems totally possible that enough interest groups don’t want Ukraine to actually win, so they block anything more than the minimum viable amount. So it’s not much of a barometer at all for anything…

Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by eru on Tuesday October 29, 2024 @11:23PM (#41991691)
Yes, but this theory requires more and more epicycles.

There's probably some small-ish 'dark budget'. But think about it: the official budget is in the order of single digit percentage points of US GDP. That represents and enormous amount of resources. Any appreciable fraction of that in a 'dark budget' would also leave traces all over the place.

Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by MichaelZuo on Wednesday October 30, 2024 @01:20AM (#41992118)
Well of course?

The world is vastly more complex than say the world of 1945, so almost certainly there are now likely several dozens to several hundreds of ‘epicycles’ that are in fact true and necessary for full understanding.

Edit: Now the pentagon doesn’t contain the entire complexity of mankind within it… but it’s probably not that far off.

Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by eru on Wednesday October 30, 2024 @03:19AM (#41992534)
I'm not actually sure that the world is more complex today. Lots of things are a lot easier and simpler, in fact.
Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by coretx on Wednesday October 30, 2024 @06:49AM (#41993543)
Hindsight bias. States, like us human beings, are not nor ever have been completely in control of themselves and exist out of different "parts" making the whole. Also, when expected outcomes don't align with perceived results, it's usually best but not very human to doubt yourself. You never have all the information you need for making the best decision or opinion. "Dark Budgets" vested in firms like Dwave via firms like inQtel, steer research about quantum computing. Whoever has Shor/Grovers going first, has a advantage equitable to winning the AGI race... That too can win wars. Nothing is simple and perceived simpleness is on the clock, for everyone.
Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by eru on Thursday October 31, 2024 @01:44AM (#42003825)
I'm not quite sure what you are on about.

What bearing does what you mention have on the question on whether things got more or less complicated?

> Also, when expected outcomes don't align with perceived results, it's usually best but not very human to doubt yourself.

Eg this seems like something that would apply equally well at any time?

> Whoever has Shor/Grovers going first, has a advantage equitable to winning the AGI race... That too can win wars.

We have plenty of quantum resistant options, and people are already switching over.

And the story of the Enigma and its encryption shows that cryptographic and its breakage was already important back in the day.

> Nothing is simple and perceived simpleness is on the clock, for everyone.

How is this different now than before, though?

Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by coretx on Saturday November 02, 2024 @08:59AM (#42026145)
It's not inherently different, how we deal with it is. Drawing conclusions from linear seemingly causal events is nuts considering that most start calculating from the future desired outcome to the present.Someone may do something stupid on purpose in order to gain later. Adversaries may do the same, the math can quickly spiral beyond human/individual comprehension. For a fact at least for a part of whoever may be involved in some way or another. Complexity is not random, and we can choose our initial conditions to our liking, causing $outcome. We now have entire DC's crunching numbers, not just a bunch of nerds at Bletchley Park. Their ability to calculate and manipulate odds for something to happen far exceeds ours, that's different now. Yet we read snippets from people speculating, drawing conclusions based on, what exactly ?
Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by eru on Saturday November 02, 2024 @04:39PM (#42029071)
You are way more optimistic than me about anyone actually being in charge, or humanity's ability to predict things.
Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by ChumpGPT on Tuesday October 29, 2024 @11:58PM (#41991844)
Perhaps...
Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by trashtester on Wednesday October 30, 2024 @11:33AM (#41996220)
The rational (but cynical) policy for the DoD/NATO is to provide just enough support to Ukraine to keep the war equal and let the Russians bleed themselves until all support for continued war is gone in their population.

In monteary terms, this is barely more expensive than maintainig enough of a weapons stockpile during peacetime to counter Russia. And at the end of the conflict, anti-war sentiment within Russia might reach Germany post WW2 levels.

By comparison, more overt support to Ukraine, enough for Ukraine to at least humiliate Russia and throw them all the way out of the country, would only serve to help spread the anti-West hate within Russia, and generate support for even more ambitious rearmament in the years that would follow.

Pretty much like Germany after WW1.

Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by netdevnet on Friday November 01, 2024 @08:47AM (#42016427)
Not even that. You might want it to win, not care about the outcome or not think that it will win without putting the US through a long depression, in all those cases it makes US officials reluctant to put themselves in such vulnerable position especially given the new rising world powers
Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by derektank on Wednesday October 30, 2024 @01:06AM (#41992089)
There's no dark budget, it's all there, the programs are just usually listed as "Classified" or "Special Activities" like NGA funding was in the late 90s.
Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by lupusreal on Wednesday October 30, 2024 @06:07AM (#41993375)
> This does not include many military-related items that are outside of the Defense Department budget, such as nuclear weapons research, maintenance, cleanup, and production, which are in the Atomic Energy Defense Activities section,[90] Veterans Affairs, the Treasury Department's payments in pensions to military retirees and widows and their families, interest on debt incurred in past wars, or State Department financing of foreign arms sales and militarily-related development assistance. Neither does it include defense spending that is domestic rather than international in nature, such as the Department of Homeland Security, counter-terrorism spending by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and intelligence-gathering spending by NSA, although these programs contain certain weapons, military and security components.

> Accounting for non DoD military-related expenditure gives a total budget in excess of $1.4 trillion.[91]

Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by soulofmischief on Wednesday October 30, 2024 @08:09AM (#41994002)
The Pentagon frequently "loses" $1T here and there and then says, "oopsie!" with no actual consequences. That looks like a dark budget to me once you factor out typical government waste and overredundancy.

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/pentagon-audit-2666415734/

Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by dgfitz on Tuesday October 29, 2024 @07:29PM (#41990517)
It’s funny how that bit only comes up when HN wants to use it to make a point.
Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by colechristensen on Tuesday October 29, 2024 @05:51PM (#41989785)
>What's the military budget of USA?

Somewhere between $900B and $1T this year

Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by cedws on Tuesday October 29, 2024 @07:16PM (#41990424)
Yeah, I mean, what else would you do with those chips? Run LLMs faster? Sorry but the killer app is still not there, the majority of people do not care and have no use for them.
Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by Zopieux on Tuesday October 29, 2024 @07:54PM (#41990672)
Don't you dare question the usefulness of gen ai on the hacker news. Many folks haven't caught up with reality just yet.
Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by Terr_ on Tuesday October 29, 2024 @10:13PM (#41991309)
It's not quite that bad, at least not in comments.
Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by HKH2 on Tuesday October 29, 2024 @08:32PM (#41990884)
I wonder what proportion of students use them for homework etc. The coming generations of people will care less about writing style.
Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by hu3 on Wednesday October 30, 2024 @07:55AM (#41993920)
It's the new calculator.

I don't have papers but I think calculators, which are amazing and necessary, impact people's mental calculation capabilities. I know I used to he better at multiplication when i didn't have calculators all around me.

IMO, AI will have similar impact. Great advance overall but will nerf some areas of or mental capacity.

Like astronauts losing muscle mass faster in zero gravity.

AI impact on our brain, just like the calculator, might be a reasonable price to pay for the advancement it gives.

Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by eru on Thursday October 31, 2024 @01:48AM (#42003848)
> I know I used to he better at multiplication when i didn't have calculators all around me.

My manual calculation skills were at their peak in seventh grade in school, when we were allowed to use a calculator for the first time (and thus the exercises got harder) but simultaneously I usually forgot to bring mine.

But yeah, I don't think I could think better in general, when I did arithmetic better.

Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by Terr_ on Tuesday October 29, 2024 @10:12PM (#41991304)
There are a significant number of uses, it's just most of them involve generating slop for the purposes of fraud or feigning work.

I thought it was really damning how Apple's recent ads involved a celebrity using it to respond to their agent about a script proposal they didn't actually read.

Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by adastra22 on Wednesday October 30, 2024 @12:24AM (#41991962)
I just paid for some graphic design work. What I got back looked pretty, but was very clearly derivative of generative AI. I feel defrauded...
Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by eru on Tuesday October 29, 2024 @11:24PM (#41991693)
You can always train more and faster, and run more experiments.
Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by adastra22 on Wednesday October 30, 2024 @12:21AM (#41991950)
He had AGI. He still has it. You can have it too, for a $20/month subscription from OpenAI or Anthropic.

It just turns out that AGI (artificial general intelligence, which ChatGPT objectively is), is not a singularity nor even a tipping point towards causing one.

Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by echoangle on Wednesday October 30, 2024 @04:06AM (#41992804)
How is ChatGPT „objectively“ AGI? You don’t think there are common intellectual tasks humans are better at than ChatGPT? Can ChatGPT do math better than a human without specific prompting to use a calculator (function calls)?
Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by lupusreal on Wednesday October 30, 2024 @06:09AM (#41993389)
I never understood AGI to mean "better than humans". A lot of people assumed it would easily be made to be, by simply throwing more silicon at it until it was, but being smarter than humans isn't what makes it "AGI".

Put this another way, suppose we create a computer program that is only as smart as a bottom 10% human (I'm not saying they have.) You can't reasonably say that is smarter than humans generally. But are you comfortable saying that bottom 10% humans lack any general intelligence at all? General intelligence doesn't mean extreme intelligence, and so Artificial General Intelligence doesn't either. You might say that the term is more than the sum of the parts, which is fair, but I still dispute that superhuman abilities was ever part of the definition of AGI. It was just a (thusfar) failed prediction about AGI.

Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by echoangle on Wednesday October 30, 2024 @06:30AM (#41993473)
My definition and the one I found on Wikipedia is „AGI […] matches or surpasses human cognitive capabilities across a wide range of cognitive tasks.“. Being better that the bottom 10% of humans on some tasks doesn’t really qualify to me.
Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by fragmede on Wednesday October 30, 2024 @07:52AM (#41993904)
ASI (artificial super intelligence) is distinct from AGI. Not distinguishing between those two just confuses things.
Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by netdevnet on Friday November 01, 2024 @08:50AM (#42016449)
By that token, you could find non-human animals that are smarter than some percentage of humanity in a few tasks. Are those animals AGI?

Now you could find a software that is smarter than some percentage of humanity in a few tasks. Is that software AGI? Is AlphaGo AGI? Is the Google Deep mind AI gamer AGI?

Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by adastra22 on Wednesday October 30, 2024 @01:58PM (#41998237)
AGI means what it says on the tin: Artificial General Intelligence. As opposed to narrow AI, which most pre-transformer AI research was, that can only do specific categories of tasks. ChatGPT is a general-purpose NLP interface to a model which is able to be solve any category of problem that can be expressed through human language, which as far as we know is full generality.

What you are getting confused about is that there is a segment of people that have purposefully confused / conflated ASI (artificial SUPER intelligence) with AGI, due to their own beliefs about the hard-takeoff potential of AGI. This notably includes the founders of OpenAI and Anthropic, and early backers of OpenAI prior to the release of ChatGPT. Through their success they've set the narrative about AGI, but they are doing so by co-opting and redefining a term that has a quarter century of history behind it.

The core mistake started with Bostrom, although to his credit he is very careful to distinguish ASI from AGI. But he argued that once you had AGI (the ability to apply intelligence to solving any problem) you would rapidly get ASI through a process of rapid iterative design. Yudkowsky took those ideas a step further in his FOOM debate with Robin Hanson in 2008, in which he argued that the AGI -> ASI transition would be short, measured in months, weeks, days, or even mere hours. In 2022, six months prior to the release of ChatGPT, Yudkowsky has a public meltdown in which he asserted there is no time left and we're all going to die, after having been privately shown an early version of ChatGPT.

It's almost two years since the release of ChatGPT, which is absolutely AGI by the definition of the people who coined the term and have run the AGI Conference series for ~25 years, or by the definition of Bostrom or Yudkowsky for that matter. ChatGP is general intelligence, and it is artificial. Two years of AGI, yet we are still here and there is no ASI in sight. Yudkowsky was wrong.

Yet OpenAI, which was founded by a bunch of Yudkowsky acolytes, is still out there saying that "AGI" will bring about the singularity, because that was the core assumption underlying their founding and the reason for the investments they've received. They can get away with this without changing their message because they've subtly redefined "AGI" to mean ASI, and are hoping you don't notice the slight of hand.

Re:OpenAI builds first chip with Broadcom and TSMC, scales b... by rsynnott on Wednesday October 30, 2024 @07:11AM (#41993654)
> artificial general intelligence, which ChatGPT objectively is

I'm sorry, but that's absolutely delusional.