Chester Beatty is a gem. I went into it not expecting much from "museum of books". But it's also in a way a museum of world's religions, which are tightly connected to writing and books. As an atheist who has low opinion on value of religion because of all the deaths they were and still are responsible for, it reminded me of their positive role in history. When you see all those ancient religious books you begin to question whether we would have writing at all without them? Who would go through a painstaking process of duplicating books before Gutenberg if not men devoting their lives to God? Thus carrying light of civilization and creating basis and tools for science to progress later. I know this is not some great revelation, but I felt enlightened a bit after leaving Chester Beatty.

Your post reminded me of the story "A canticle for leibowitz".

It explores many of the ideas you've mentioned. I recommend reading it if you haven't already. I think you'd enjoy it.

Thanks for the recommendation, looks like the kind of book I'd enjoy.

The idea that religion causes more deaths than non-religion is absurd in the 21st history (hitler, Stalin, mao) and is a myth when you take in full world history.

An index of all known wars in history indicated 93% of wars were not religious.

https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-ca...

Never said that religion was responsible for all or even most wars. But you can't deny it plays negative role in many wars. It wouldn't have to be for theological reasons, since it seems the article would only count these cases as religious wars. Religion is often used to segregate humans into opposing tribes, where without religion they could be a single nation, or even same ethnicity.

What kind of logic is that? Exactly the opposite could be said as well and still hold true.

If you mean by "the opposite" that everybody believes the same thing, then theoretically yes. However, that is very unlikely and I assume there will always be people with different views/opinions.

The more you put people into "separate boxes", the more you segregate them. And I agree with the previous reply that religion is one of those things that puts you in a specific box.

I think they mean that people in large groups segregate themselves into smaller ones, by whatever characteristics available. If they had the same religion they’d be separated into orthodox and progressive versions of it, or people who had come off well out of the last great flood vs people who got screwed by it. And then they’d create a religion as explanation for the flood and why it was from god/the devil.

> And then they’d create a religion as explanation for the flood and why it was from god/the devil.

.. as opposed to climate change which is self-evident.

It's a multiplier. The strength of faith it brings will unite people in single mindedness, for good or bad ends.

Religion as taught in schools or many (most?) churches is indeed mostly indoctrination. I've gone the full spectrum, from practicing Christian with a real fear of God as I was taught since I was a kid until 13 then atheist until 25 then slowly getting back my faith by learning a lot about it from different sources.

Now I say I'm as sure that "God" exists as I am of gravity. Too many synchronicities have happened to me for it to just be coincidence. However I still believe that church is mostly a corrupt institution with very few exceptions.

I know Jordan Peterson is a polarizing figure but his biblical lectures are very good and seem like they were created by a different person than he currently presents himself. I'd also recommend Ram Dass and especially Alan watts talks about Christianity

> Religion is often used to segregate humans into opposing tribes

You can say that about absolutely any belief, whether religious or not

If you like libraries like this, and you're ever in the area, I can highly recommend the Herzog August Bibliothek in Wolfenbüttel, Germany.

Crazy amount of incredibly rare books and manuscripts that you can actually look at. For many you will need to wear gloves and may have someone hovering over you, but it's worth it. Some absolutely mind blowing material in that library!

Agreed! We went last year and thoroughly enjoyed it. I understand that the Long Room in the Old Library is mostly empty for renovations, but the Book has been moved to a dedicated building during this time.

Pro-tip to any potential visitors: they turn the pages every so often, and I have heard some travel bloggers complain that the pages on display when they went weren't very interesting, but the university will show you what pages of the book of Kells are currently on display: https://www.visittrinity.ie/book-of-kells-pages-on-display/

At the moment, it appears that they have it open to a pair of canon tables which have some really lovely illuminations.

They have some gorgeous Asian exhibits as well from what I remember.

The Chester Beatty Library has a much larger collection than is shown at any one time. Many sacred texts, but also much else, including some printed news-sheets from the French Revolution. And a lot of Chinese and Japanese stuff, including some gorgeous jade snuffboxes.

There's also a pretty decent eatery!

Another amazing library, though one that you can't really access, is the Edward Worth library at Dr Steevens’ Hospital, beside Heuston train station.

https://edwardworthlibrary.ie/

He had collected the books over his lifetime and bequeathed the collection to the hospital, under conditions that were to result in the absolute protection of the books. The story of the collection's history is itself worth the visit, and the current librarians are always welcoming if you call in advance. I was at a lecture there last week, and they took great pains to tell everybody to come back.

I saw it in person few months ago, and well......it's weird. The quality of the caligraphy and drawings is such that when you see it in person...it's completely underwhelming. It just looks like a very high quality print - which obviously speaks volumes about the quality of penmanship of something that is so crazy old. But the presentation room where the pages were shown magnified and the library afterwards were(to me) 100x more interesting than the "main event". I just saw it, went "huh" and that was about it. I guess seeing Mona Lisa in person must be similar - hundreds of people trying to take a peek, and it's far away from you behind glass so you can't really appreciate the details.

Opposite reaction from me. Every print seemed lackluster when I finally saw the original. Which is surprisingly smaller than expected. And the intricacies are incredibly tiny.

Something about the work is more vibrant in person. I found the same to be true about Da Vinci. In particular his silverpoint drawings can’t be reproduced well.

It’s a bit like looking at the sky with your own telescope after seeing the Hubble images. You need superhuman senses - such as the magnified images and the extensive explanations in the museum - to really appreciate some things.

The library is iconic. Too bad we can’t borrow the books it has without at least a tenure and a few PhDs in history and literature.

I did have pretty much exactly that reaction to the Mona Lisa, yes.

I stayed at a dorm on campus for a week at Trinity, but the book was so popular I couldn’t bring myself to wait in the long line to see it… but wish I had.

Strongly agreed. This is likely more obvious, but I think it's worth saying: the "Treasury" in the Kildare Street building of the National Museum of Ireland should also be at the top of any visitor's list. The Ardagh Chalice and friends are more or less the equal and equivalent of the Book of Kells in metalwork. https://www.museum.ie/en-ie/collections-research/collection/... .

The archeology museum in the same block is also a must-see

I live in Dublin and never heard of this. Must do it ASAP.

Now, how many HN’ers are here in Dublin? We might want to start a group on Meetup.com.

I was there for ten years but moved to the Netherlands. You might like the Irish tech community slack, though they’re not fans of this site.

Speaking of things that are gorgeous and well worth a visit I can also strongly recommend Iona - one of the places where the Book of Kells may have been produced.

A bit out of the way and the weather isn't always perfect but on a nice day I think Iona is one of the most beautiful places in the world - and that's before considering it's remarkable history and religious significance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iona

I went to Iona a couple of months ago and had a spectacular time. Though the impression I got from the Abbey Museum was that the Book of Kells was definitely written solely on Iona. I suspected this might be slightly skewed, but that's OK. I understand having pride in a place like Iona.

+1 for Chester Beatty. It is such a gem of a museum