News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by lordlarm on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @11:59AM (#4162602)
Hm, Am I the only one who spends hours in vim each day with ~15 lines in my .vimrc and almost zero plugins?

At some point I think I realized that no matter how feature-rich my editor was, the main thing stopping me from writing good and fast code was _thinking_, not configuring my text editor.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by guns on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @12:40PM (#4162801)
I continue to be haunted by something a good artist friend used to say: "Don't obsess over your tools. They are not the goal".

This would ring in the back of my head as I spent many hours configuring my editor / shell / terminal setup. It felt like a guilty pleasure.

It dawned on me however, that what had drawn me to programming in the first place was a sublime text editor (TextMate), and that my business is in fact tool-building. My love for computing tools and the experience of using them reflects in the kind of software I build for clients.

On top of this, evaluating and obsessing over hacker's tools isn't confined to picking between models at the hardware store. I have pored over (and patched, however minor) bash, vim, tmux, rxvt-unicode, and many other programs that I use every day.

These things may well be rationalizations, so here's a simpler justification: the time I invest into my tools have made my experience of sitting down in front of a computer incredibly enjoyable. I once lived computer free for three years because I detested the uninspiring (and frustrating) experience of Microsoft Word and Windows 98. If that was what computing was, I wanted nothing to do with it.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by cabalamat on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @01:35PM (#4163102)
> the time I invest into my tools have made my experience of sitting down in front of a computer incredibly enjoyable

I've found that too, asnd it helps me be productive. I run MediaWiki on my PC as my internal documentation system. I used to use it with the default skin, which looks a bit meh, but I recently added my own skin, which looks a lot nicer. I found that every time I looked at the wiki after that, I got a little hit of joy from looking at a nicely-skinned page.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by michael_fine on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @04:47PM (#4164018)
Similarly, that's why almost always, the first thing I do when building a web app is to design it, because it makes those 40+ hours far more enjoyable to be staring at an attractive program.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by bergie on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @06:57PM (#4164615)
I've once watched a group of sculptors argue about the merits of various drills for a whole evening. So yes, artists also obsess over their tools just like we do over ours.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by dinkumthinkum on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @12:31PM (#4167769)
Well, the poster said a "good artist" told him that. Even so, perhaps your group were good artists but misguided on just this one issue. Another anecdote, I saw a thing on ice sculptors; there were two really amazing artists and they were arguing about which one used better tools. One artist used an angle grinder exclusively for almost everything and the other used hand chisels exclusively for detail. It doesn't seem like the tool matters that much as long as it is fits a certain percentage of needs.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by bergie on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @05:29PM (#4169327)
I don't think these were thinking that a particular tool is necessary for creating good art, either. It is more about the fact that any craftsman becomes quite attached to their particular tools.

This is the root cause of the endless Vi vs. Emacs debates as well.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by rufwork on Wednesday July 11, 2012 @02:07PM (#4230446)
Fair, though the question is less, "Do we need good tools?" than "What makes a great tool?" VIm and Emacs both make great tools.

But nobody comes to VIm knowing how to use it intuitively. Its features make the investment worthwhile. Same with Sublime Text 2. There are features that instantly save time (the tiny thumbnail of your entire file makes traversal a breeze for me) and others than take a while to get used to (ctrl-P).

The question shouldn't be, "Should I waste time looking at ANY tools?" especially in the ironic context of, "I've used two decades of my life learning VIm and now it ROCKS." It's, "What does this tool have that makes it worth using?" That answer for me so far is speed, flexibility, and features, like the two above. I'd hoped to see more on those topics here.

When I want to use VIm, I do. When I want to use JEdit, I do. As the previous fellow replying says, you don't simply use hammers. Figure out where this tool -- which is a very good one -- fits. Its best feature might be its untimed trial period. Give it a shot.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by paddymcdonald on Friday June 29, 2012 @06:27PM (#4179456)
I have a hammer that I absolutely love, I never need to use another tool for anything
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by koglerjs on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @11:17PM (#4165335)
well, that's the fun of specifics, innit?
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by elviejo on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @02:11AM (#4165773)
My father is a car mechanic and once said nothing more powerful.than having the right tool for the job.

and he also said that your tools protect you.. the day you get a flat tire is exactly the day you put your tools out of the car...

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by dinkumthinkum on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @12:34PM (#4167787)
For mechanical things, I think your father is exactly right. For programming and text editing, I think it is different. If you don't have the right sized socket wrench, probably all you are going to do is destroy whatever you are working on. With programming, i.e. editing text, it's a different story.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by gcr on Friday June 29, 2012 @12:12PM (#4177370)
At the extreme case, I'd trust a vim or emacs or eclipse user with my next big project far more than I'd trust a user who willingly uses notepad.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by geekam on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @11:49PM (#4165406)
>>> "Don't obsess over your tools. They are not the goal"

Actually, someone from design background once told me "Good tools produce great work".

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by maigret on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @04:22AM (#4166082)
Rather, I would say - bad tools may prevent you from doing great work.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by ThePherocity on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @12:30PM (#4167760)
I vehemently disagree with this; good tools help get out of the way to allow you to do good work. If your tools are producing work, then you aren't.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by geekam on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @11:37PM (#4170284)
Maybe a better one would be "Good tools let you produce great work"?
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by exim on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @12:53PM (#4162877)
I think, in these days, it is not too much to ask for the intelligent completion, e.g. when you type dot or arrow, to get corresponding members of class/struct - the information is just there and the editor has enough power to parse it...

Same goes for a very simple word completion - when the editor already encountered the word in the previous line.

These are just _very_ basic things.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by clintjhill on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @01:14PM (#4162988)
But it's not. In fact intelligent completion is incredibly hard for dynamically typed languages. Those IDE that do perform intellisense or autocomplete with dynamic languages do it with very basic ability. In a real world dynamically written code file the editor simply has no way of knowing the members of a class. Or if it is even a "class".
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by jamesaguilar on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @02:22PM (#4163409)
No one's saying it's easy, but enough IDEs have done it that some of us have come to expect it.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by snprbob86 on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @02:45PM (#4163521)
I started programming on VB3 and spent many years doing Visual C++ and C# as well as quite a bit of Java with IntelliJ. I depended deeply on IntelliSense/autocomplete. Years later, I don't remember how I ever got anything done with that stupid distracting drop down box. It's just so easy to arrow up/down through that list and hope to stumble upon the correct method to call. On the rare occasion that I type that member accessor dot and don't know what I want, I much prefer full-sized documentation in a browser that I can cmd+f on.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by pbz on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @12:59AM (#4165596)
Using it as an alternative to documentation is a small part. First of all you get a confirmation that what you have up to that point is somewhat correct. If the dropdown doesn't show then something's wrong - sometimes that's ok and expected. You also get a type confirmation and actual completion as in type one or two characters and have the rest filled out for you.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by snprbob86 on Thursday June 28, 2012 @11:24AM (#4172112)
It's just a different style of working, but I almost never type long symbols. I go to their definition site, yank them into a buffer, and paste them into place.

Or, I work with a REPL. So I write the code there and run it before putting it into my code base, so I know it's correct.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by bronson on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @06:41PM (#4164545)
Only for old and static languages.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by jamesaguilar on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @08:24PM (#4164898)
Actually, Eclipse's Python support is decent. You can infer a lot about what a type is by what methods and properties are accessed. It's not perfect, but it can do a decent job of it in a lot of cases.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by recursive on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @11:56PM (#4165426)
How old is old?
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by lyime on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @01:19PM (#4163010)
Sometimes the simples things are hardest to implement. Visual voice mail - No brainer, but took a decade.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by chokma on Thursday June 28, 2012 @02:42AM (#4170572)
I am still looking for a Perl IDE which offers autocomplete - or at least the option to jump to where the currently selected method is defined. Something like the Groovy/Grails-support in IntelliJ - but of course, Groovy is somewhat easier to autocomplete because of the underlying Java class system.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by astral303 on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @10:39PM (#4165248)
IntelliJ does really impressive type inference in Groovy. I can write all sorts of dynamic code and it autocompletes surprisingly well. Not as great as Java, obviously, but impressive nonetheless.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by chrisbuc on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @04:08PM (#4163861)
Unless that dynamic language is Google Dart. The Dart Editor's intellisense works just fine.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by no_more_death on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @01:25PM (#4163047)
Dynamic languages are not ideal for huge code bases. But huge code bases are not ideal, period.

Dynamic languages grant huge power to small programs. Greater power through less code is surely the future.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by spooneybarger on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @03:03PM (#4163614)
The work that http://www.vpri.org/ has been doing around OMeta, Nile etc is really exciting.

It is detailed in the later part of this Alan Kay presentation:

https://www.tele-task.de/archive/video/flash/14029/

( around minute 45 or so up, perhaps earlier for more background )

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by kamaal on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @12:12AM (#4165473)
Only if we consider future of problem solving involves writing code.

Tool generated code, might be a big thing in the future. Eclipse + Java is already 80% tool generated code.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by damncabbage on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @02:58AM (#4165896)
Steve Yegge has some interesting points to make about generated code: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com.au/2007/12/codes-worst-enemy...
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by rapind on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @01:07PM (#4162941)
It all depends on your average typing / coding speed. Autocompletion doesn't offer a lot to someone who knows the language framework really well and type 90+ wpm. You may even find it's annoying more than helpful most of the time.

I'm not that fast and to be honest I really don't miss code completion at all.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by jules on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @03:30PM (#4163717)
It's not so much about typing less as it is about interactively learning to use an API or codebase. Suppose you have a comment object and you want to get the body text of that comment. With autocompletion you can just type `comment.` and you'll immediately see whether it's called "body" or "text" or something else, instead of having to browse around the codebase (which incidentally is also easier in an IDE that understands your code, because you can put your cursor on the class name and press a "go to definition" key instead of having to find it manually).

Another invaluable feature related to this is documentation as you type. I can never remember the order of the arguments to the fold function. Fortunately Visual Studio helps out: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/388822/intellisense.gif (somehow my mouse pointer shows up in white, which makes it hard to see, but if you hover over the variables you get type information & documentation).

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by rapind on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @04:05PM (#4163853)
To me what you're describing are imagined problems. They aren't real problems for someone who eschews autocompletion tools. No offence intended.

I would argue that the autocompletion training wheels for learning a new API are really only useful if you're rarely going to use that API again. If you're going to be using it a lot, there's actual value in spending the extra effort to learn it's functions. It'll stick more. Unless you have a photographic memory your brain will tend to discard information it had to expend no effort on, and autocompletion basically becomes background noise. I theorize that a fast typist will gain the edge after using the API 10+ times, even if they have to look it up the first couple of times, because the additional effort and focus they had to give to the task will commit it to memory (and they will potentially learn more about what the API is doing).

The focus is often on typing the fewest characters, but I think that's the wrong thing to focus on most of the time when choosing an editor.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by jules on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @04:54PM (#4164051)
> I would argue that the autocompletion training wheels for learning a new API are really only useful if you're rarely going to use that API again. If you're going to be using it a lot, there's actual value in spending the extra effort to learn it's functions.

Couldn't agree more with the second sentence: I actually print out a listing of common APIs and take the time to memorize them. But you just described 90% of the APIs in your first sentence. For those APIs having quick access to autocompletion lists (to see which methods an object supports) and quick access to documentation is tremendously useful. As for your theory, common sense would say that how much you learn is proportional to the time spend on it. So if you use the API 10 times by looking it up manually, and you use the API 10 times by looking it up in contextual autocomplete, then yes you're going to learn more with the manual lookup. But this is an unfair comparison: you'd spend much more time on the latter than on the former. In the same time to look up the API 10 times manually, you could have looked it up in contextual autocomplete 30 times and then you'd have memorized it just as well.

I sense a lot of irrational aversion to autocomplete, that it's for slow typists, it's training wheels, and Real Men don't use it. Look at it as an incredibly quick way to look up documentation. In fact unless the method name is really long I do not use autocomplete as autocomplete at all: I fully type the method name instead of hitting a key to accept the completion. It's just a way to short circuit the process of switching to a web browser, searching for and reading the documentation of the relevant class/module, and switching back to the editor.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by rapind on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @08:40PM (#4164951)
I wasn't using the term "training wheels" in any sort of derogatory way. You described autocomplete as a learning tool to get you up and running fast with a new API. Training wheels seemed like a good analogy. Nothing macho about it.

I don't think autocompleting a call 30 times is nearly as valuable as looking it up for me at least, because since I'm already invested I'll take the time to learn about it. If all I did was tab complete something and it seemed to work I'd be far too lazy to dig any deeper. I don't see why I'd spend any more time on it during consecutive autocompletes either.

Also, when I use a new library chances are very high that I'll be using it over and over and over again. It's more like 10% of APIs that I'll never use again (but still may learn something). I'm speaking purely from experience, and it baffles me that others stated finding so little library re-use. That sounds incredibly frustrating.

It's been my experience having used autocomplete tools in the past (4-5 years ago would be the last time) I don't miss them at all. I don't think they provide me with any real benefits. This is completely thought through and rational IMO. However I will grant you that it's potentially subjective and not everyone would see the same benefits.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by kamaal on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @12:17AM (#4165485)
You are arguing against a lost cause. Using a text editor to work with languages like Java/C# was the trend of the 90's.

These days 99% of all Java/C# coding is in IDE's. And rightly so, because there is no reason to subject yourself to the torture of programming using an text editor. That sort of verbosity and boiler plate should be handled by tools, not humans.

People who code using simple text editors, in highly verbose and boiler plate demanding languages like Java are exceptional few and going by the trend will never be the norm.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by rapind on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @09:46AM (#4166857)
You're probably right. The last time I touched Java was about 4 years ago. Even then I was using a basic text editor (Eclipse was a monster at the time that took forever to launch and hemorrhaged memory), but it wasn't so bad in the Spring (and Guice) world because you were mostly working with POJOs and didn't need any of the Eclipse autocomplete and refactoring tools.

I think the trend will actually go the other way though and there'll be less gigantic IDE usage in the future, but I'm not going to put money on it.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by samspot on Thursday June 28, 2012 @12:42AM (#4170376)
I tried to use Sublime for Java (w/ Spring/Hibernate) for a day and found several things I can't live without:

1. Ctrl-1: Automatically tries to fix a compile error. I use this a lot to get my imports automatically, and for other random things.

2. Open Declaration: This was touched on by others and is incredibly useful. The IDE can find the right Class even if two have the same name, while search can make this difficult in some cases.

3. Show References: Similar to above, this is just incredibly useful when you are refactoring or need to see how something is used.

4. Generate getters and setters: I know this one is dumb, but it's so convenient. I just hover over the unused warning then click, and i've got the code.

This editor is snazzy and fast but I don't think I can make the switch.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by samspot on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @06:15PM (#4164452)
Why waste the mental space, especially with something you don't know you'll be using again? Not to mention the fact that api documentation can be difficult to find or may not exist at all. The Autocomplete knows exactly what methods are available.

I wouldn't disagree about learning the libraries you use frequently, but I personally work on a huge stack with more than 80 dependencies and memorizing their api's just isn't time well spent.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by skrebbel on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @04:31PM (#4163954)
Most APIs I use I don't intend to use many times again. If I'd be coding against the same 5 libs over and over again, chances are big I'm coding roughly the same thing over and over again. That sounds very boring. (that, or i'm coding something low-level like a db or a protocol - but are you?)
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by rapind on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @08:56PM (#4164984)
Most APIs I use, I end up using over and over and over again in different projects / applications.

Only ever using 5 libs does sound incredibly boring. However the toolbox of libraries I've accumulated repeated experience with over the years is in the hundreds, and learning more about them has proven worthwhile. I assume most developers would say the same.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by exim on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @08:33AM (#4166580)
Even if I exactly know what to type and I can type fast, I still prefer to achieve same with 3 keystrokes rather than typing full 20-30 symbols.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by irahul on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @04:31AM (#4166101)
> At some point I think I realized that no matter how feature-rich my editor was, the main thing stopping me from writing good and fast code was _thinking_, not configuring my text editor.

Configuring my text editor isn't the main thing stopping me from writing good and fast code, but a badly configured editor does inhibit it. Working with 0 plugins is not a bad deal, but I am missing the point why I would want to.

Sure I can manually comment/uncomment(nerdtree), manually write nested html(zenconding), manually balance parens when writing clojure/racket(paredit, autoclose), do a :ls and buffer switch(bufexplorer), diff swap file and on disk file and recover accordingly(recover)....etc etc.

These aren't the most important things when it comes to writing good code. That doesn't mean it doesn't help. My .vimrc is 300 lines, and there is nothing in there which I don't need or which doesn't help me write fast code.

These simple abbreviations save me a ton of irritation:

    inoremap \1 <%<Space><Space>%><Esc>2hi
    inoremap \2 <%=<Space><Space>%><Esc>2hi
    inoremap \3 {%<Space><Space>%}<Esc>2hi
    inoremap \4 {{<Space><Space>}}<Esc>2hi
No one is contesting you can't type '{{ some_crap }}' repeatedly, but I don't see how doing that is beneficial in any way.

Adding simple customization to vimrc is simple. Plugins are even simpler. Committing the shortcuts to muscle memory is not as simple. But if you really need the customization/plugin, that means you will be using it and it will become muscle memory very quickly.

Thinking is the major hurdle when it comes to writing good code, but it isn't the only one. The other factors are important.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by ubercore on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @03:22PM (#4163688)
In my experience, Sublime Text hits that exact niche you're describing. It does the things important to programmers, or people who work with lots of text, well enough that you don't have to worry about any plugins, etc. But it also offers a great plugin ecosystem for just about anything you want. Turning on "vintage" mode is a great plus, too, especially coming from vim.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by tsm on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @10:17PM (#4165193)
And, like every vim emulator ever (with the possible exception of Emacs' spawn), it doesn't support all the vim keystrokes I use daily. My brain knows vim, and I'll code in vim. You don't see professional pianists perform on electric keyboards.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by statictype on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @12:46AM (#4165564)
That's what I used to think. Then I started using Sublime text and it's project management features (together with Ctrl-P/Cmd-P) and realized what a huge productivity booster it was to me.

I know Vim has NerdTree and the equivalent Cmd-T plugin - I have tried them and they don't work out quite the same.

There are still lots of things I like about Vim that aren't there in Sublime but it's all about compromises. I still use Vim for editing single files but use Sublime for any project that requires multiple files to be opened and edited.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by mattacular on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @11:05PM (#4165304)
Umm what? Yes they do and that is a pretty terrible analogy even if they didn't. Why do you feel the need to pollute a release thread with your VIM elitism?
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by kamaal on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @12:09AM (#4165461)
I think his point is right. Market a tool for what it is good at doing.

If I want to use vim, I can use vim. Heck there are many things these days that will give you the same GUI candy what GUI based text editors give.

Glossy text editors come and go every 2-3 years, Editors like Emacs and vim stay.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by swah on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @03:15PM (#4168687)
On the other hand, what are the odds we're still using them in 100 years? Almost none.

The next question then must be: when do we start writing the next generation of tools? Now, or should we wait?

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by kamaal on Thursday June 28, 2012 @12:54AM (#4170390)
>>On the other hand, what are the odds we're still using them in 100 years?

Firstly you are not going to live for the coming 100 years. So lets not worry about impossible scenarios.

Secondly next generation tools for the next hundred years need to be designed such.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by sj4nz on Thursday June 28, 2012 @01:01AM (#4170401)
The original code for vi was written by Bill Joy in 1976. So, if we applied Gott's Principle and estimated the maximum upside of how long we'll be using Vi or Vi-like editors:

36 years × 39 = 1482 more years of Vi.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by batista on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @05:11AM (#4166180)
>* You don't see professional pianists perform on electric keyboards.*

Classical pianists don't. Every other kind of professional pianist does it all the time.

Except if you don't consider someone like Keith Jarrett, Herby Hancock or Chick Corea a "professinal pianist".

As for "not supporting all the vim keystrokes", ever heard of the 80/20 rule?

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by no_more_death on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @01:22PM (#4163027)
Same here.

Editors are vastly more complex than necessary.

I want an editor like google.com. It's simple "sentence" model totally wins. Of course, creation instead of consumption requires additional abstractions.

Three dimensions build an entire universe. An editor built with three choice abstractions could outstrip every other editor conceived. Ever.

Somebody do it.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by fusiongyro on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @03:22PM (#4163685)
Acme is close:

1. all text is "alive" for the purposes of executing/finding

2. select/execute/find for left/middle/right mouse clicks

3. ed-like command language (sam) plus structural regexes with conditions and loops

The lack of syntax highlighting is a usability problem, but also the fact that there's no good way to integrate it into something like acme is evidence that we're still missing one of these dimensions. The general problem seems to be recovering structure from the text on-the-fly and doing something with it, like highlighting or special structured editing. Emacs gets its "power" by letting the programmer directly manage what's on the screen and what happens for any key press. Editors like SublimeText and TextMate just have keybindings and language grammars, and syntax highlighting is sort of built-in.

If we had a good general solution to this problem and could plug it into acme, acme would really be compelling. But I can't really use an editor that lacks syntax highlighting.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by luriel on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @05:37PM (#4164299)
When I read the grand parent post, I immediately thought of acme.

And of sam and how some of the best programmers I know use sam[1] a language that provides even less configurability than acme.

[1]: http://sam.cat-v.org

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by fusiongyro on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @05:53PM (#4164367)
As I'm sure you already know, there's a fellow who did some impressive things with acme a few years back:

http://ipn.caerwyn.com/search/label/acme

If I understand correctly, these hinge on 9p; instead of Acme worrying about keypresses, it's some 9p client worrying about characters read. A clever solution, and self-evidently powerful, but with the obvious drawback that most of us aren't running Plan 9 or Inferno. And we still have the problem of syntax highlighting.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by leif on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @12:32PM (#4162761)
Not everyone has the privilege of working on interesting things. Consider yourself lucky.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by mdonahoe on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @12:00PM (#4162611)
Now I'm curious. What 15 lines do you use?
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by lordlarm on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @12:15PM (#4162674)
Something like this: https://gist.github.com/2996793 (16 lines, but you get the point).
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by drbawb on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @12:33PM (#4162765)
Can I ask why you disable the swap file?

As someone with a computer that is horribly unstable (in the process of replacing it over the course of next month), the swap file has saved my ass on a few occasions.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by cellularmitosis on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @03:08PM (#4163635)
my experience was that once you get used to keeping everything important in either svn or in a backup snapshot, you simply become annoyed by all of the tilde files lying around.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by jlogsdon on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @04:22PM (#4163920)
You can change where the swap files are saved too with `set directory=path`
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by bsg75 on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @12:55PM (#4162890)
Possibly to speed up opening large files. There is a plugin that does this for files above a configured size.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by riffic on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @01:40PM (#4163131)
it can be a security risk, for example, .php config files on a web server.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by akincisor on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @03:32PM (#4163726)
I prefer to use

    set directory=~/tmp
instead of turning off swap files. All the fun for none of the junk.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by fragmede on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @02:59PM (#4163588)
I'll bet you don't spend any time editing multiple languages with conflicting notions of whitespace. I split my time between C and Python, and tabs in C (per Linux kernel coding style) and spaces for Python (per PEP-8), and having that be correct is important for my sanity (as well as for the other people I work with - especially those who aren't multi-linugual).
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by daviddaviddavid on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @03:31PM (#4163722)
My .vimrc has the following two lines which expand tabs to spaces by default but make an exception for makefiles:

  set expandtab

  au FileType make setlocal noexpandtab
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by slowpoke on Thursday June 28, 2012 @06:20AM (#4170961)
Vim has the ftplugin (filetype plugin), which makes this easy as pie, and extremely configurable, too.

You simply

    set filetype plugin on
then put configuration files for a filetype into ~/.vim/ftplugin/$filetype.vim (for example, python.vim, text.vim or even gitcommit.vim).

Within those, you can do things like setting expandtab or the tab/shift width - they are full local subconfigurations which override your global configuration. They are usually not very large (5 lines on average for me), but it sure helps keep things organized and easy to find and change.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by naner on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @02:40PM (#4163500)
Obviously not. I stumbled across this same sentiment the other day:

http://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/programming/FancyPro...

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by lloeki on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @12:34PM (#4162770)
From colors to text objects, most of my vim config/plugins is not about speed but about reducing strain (which has the positive side effect of enhancing speed)
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by tylermenezes on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @12:35PM (#4162775)
It's certainly possible to write code without a good editor, but a good editor simplifies a lot of tasks which get in the way of writing good code.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by falcolas on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @02:51PM (#4163555)
That makes the erroneous assumption that vim, without heavy customization, is not a good editor.

Vim is capable, out of the box, of everything a more heavyweight editor can do. The only thing really missing is library aware code completion.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by jabr on Thursday June 28, 2012 @03:19AM (#4170626)
While partly true, the secondary issue is that your editor is inferior to the current state of the art (on all platforms).

I spend most of my time at a black/white board. Once I've won the chalkboard battle, I've put it into motion with chalk, whiteboard markers, and just wrote the computer code. I recommend the latter, though that still leaves a few options open.

For now, I'll let conciseness win.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by richbradshaw on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @12:01PM (#4162615)
You'd think that :) It's not about writing code though in my case, but marking things up as HTML. Multiple cursors help a lot here.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by dsrguru on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @12:42PM (#4162810)
But so do Vim's t text object (one of the few text objects that Sublime's Vintage mode doesn't implement) and dot command, along with Vim's C-o and C-i cursor history commands.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by richbradshaw on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @12:46PM (#4162837)
I guess it's what you are used to – I've never really got into Vim, whereas Sublime looks like a normal text editor until you need more from it.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by weaksauce on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @02:45PM (#4163520)
Using macvim is surprisingly like using a normal editor; even more so after you press "i" and start typing. All the normal copy, paste, highlight, tabs, and other os basics that you would want are there with the power of vim in the background if you want to explore.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by deedorgreed on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @10:12AM (#4166989)
Um - I have to "think" about what archaic command I have to use with vim.
Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by jamesgeck0 on Wednesday June 27, 2012 @11:25AM (#4167448)
That's an issue for the first month or few, but then it goes intuitive.

When it sunk in for me, I found myself combining operations in new ways without thinking about it. The situations where I really have to think about what I'm doing are usually when it's something weird like encodings or huge blocks of strangely formatted daily-wtf-worthy legacy code.

Sublime Text certainly has a lower upfront commitment cost to productivity, though. I still pop it open occasionally just because Ctrl-D is amazing.

Re:Sublime Text 2.0 Released by mdesantis on Thursday June 28, 2012 @04:11AM (#4170742)
No, thanks