Re:Stop the Captcha madness
by camtarn on Monday June 25, 2012 @09:00AM
(#4156262)
Aaaargh. Mouse dexterity testing is incredibly irritating when you're using a TrackPoint (rubber nipple mouse) :P
On a slightly more serious note, this is awful for anyone who has mouse dexterity issues, like older or inexperienced computer users, those using assistive devices, or even people with shaky hands. It also relies in some places on culturally specific assumptions (for instance: put toppings on a pizza... I see some squiggly reddish stuff which seems like it's meant to be bacon, but in the UK bacon doesn't look anything like that!)
Good on them for trying to make the CAPTCHA experience more interesting, but this isn't quite a complete solution...
Re:Stop the Captcha madness
by camtarn on Monday June 25, 2012 @10:06AM
(#4156534)
I do exactly what you describe - my laptop has a trackpoint and a trackpad, and I use the former because I find it more precise. However, trying to chase moving objects is very frustrating, and dragging isn't that great either.
Re:Stop the Captcha madness
by pygy_ on Monday June 25, 2012 @10:55AM
(#4156765)
It's been a while since I last had one, and I don't remember trying to play with it...
I used to find it completely unusable until I finally discovered the proper way to use it (probably when I started to touch type) which was quite an epiphany. I wanted to share just in case you hadn't yet discovered it.
Re:Stop the Captcha madness
by camtarn on Monday June 25, 2012 @11:48AM
(#4157033)
The big difference for me was turning on pointer acceleration and pushing the sensitivity way up, to the point where just placing a finger on the stick starts the pointer moving. That way you're not actually using very much pressure, and it makes using the stick much more comfortable and intuitive.
Having a decent cap on the thing also helps: my first TrackPoint (about ten years ago) was on a third-hand laptop, and the rubber had decayed to the point where it was squishy and sticky. Not very pleasant to use :)
Re:Stop the Captcha madness
by Albuca on Monday June 25, 2012 @08:45AM
(#4156205)
I can see where they are coming from in wanting to verify that a user is Human, and getting them to play a game is a great idea.
However, that solution does not work for everyone.
There are those who use smartphones, tablets, or are stuck behind corperate networks that (cannot/will not) allow you to even view or interact with the game.
I love the idea of not having to type in captcha's all the time, but the solution will have to be a universal one; making it easier for the user to verify they are human, while still keeping all the bots out.
In the meantime, at least recaptcha is doing something useful with the time we spend figuring out the captcha's.
Re:Stop the Captcha madness
by bluetidepro on Monday June 25, 2012 @08:49AM
(#4156214)
"In the meantime, at least recaptcha is doing something useful with the time we spend figuring out the captcha's."
Can you elaborate? What do you mean they are doing something useful? I'm not familiar with how recaptcha works but, I have used it on many sites before.
Re:Stop the Captcha madness
by corin_ on Monday June 25, 2012 @08:52AM
(#4156228)
"reCAPTCHA improves the process of digitizing books by sending words that cannot be read by computers to the Web in the form of CAPTCHAs for humans to decipher. More specifically, each word that cannot be read correctly by OCR is placed on an image and used as a CAPTCHA. This is possible because most OCR programs alert you when a word cannot be read correctly."
Re:Stop the Captcha madness
by Albuca on Monday June 25, 2012 @08:58AM
(#4156252)
corin_ hit the hammer on the head with that.
Sory, I should have tossed a link in when I made that comment.
There are always two words that you will see. One that is known, and the other is unknown.
Once enough users (lets use 10 for this example) type the same responce to the unknown word (and correctly identify the known word), the unknown word will move to a known status and be matched up with a new unknown word.
Thereby digitizing books!
(ever wondered why one of the words is clearer than the other? Now you know!)
Re:Stop the Captcha madness
by zithtar on Monday June 25, 2012 @08:57AM
(#4156248)
Only one of the words is actually known and used to verify humanness. The other is an unknown scan from a book, and after a certain number of identical entries (3?) is considered known.
Re:Stop the Captcha madness
by droithomme on Monday June 25, 2012 @09:07AM
(#4156291)
Observations from usability testing:
* It's called a game but it's just not fun. (Tried about 6 of them.)
* It's annoying to have to use the mouse in 2 dimensions with dragging. This activates the "locate, identify, capture something and drag it someplace else that needs to be identified" part of my brain. Using that part of the brain breaks my train of thought from the message I was thinking of typing.
Captchas are not perfect, and this is a good idea to try and do user testing, but I find it not be an improvement over captchas.
Re:Stop the Captcha madness
by geon on Monday June 25, 2012 @09:50AM
(#4156462)
Wasn't this demonstrated as broken a while ago?
Most of the "games" seems to be "pick 2 out of 4", which gives you only 7 permutations. But it's worse that that, since you can just keep on trying until you find a match.
Re:Stop the Captcha madness
by djbender on Monday June 25, 2012 @09:02AM
(#4156271)
"Increase Conversions:
PlayThru increases form submissions by up to 40% versus standard CAPTCHAs like reCaptcha. That twisted text annoys people so much that they stop filling out your form. Make it easier with our short, simple games."
Re:Stop the Captcha madness
by rplnt on Monday June 25, 2012 @09:30AM
(#4156382)
It's loading way too long - all the time benefit of not deciphering captcha was lost. It's annoying at best, trying to click on a slightly moving object and then dragging him away. Why can't I just click on a static picture? Also, it looks like an ad.
Re:Stop the Captcha madness
by mikeash on Monday June 25, 2012 @09:13AM
(#4156315)
Reloading the demo a bunch of times, there appear to only be a handful of different games. Maybe they have a reduced set for the demo, but it certainly seems like each game would require human intervention to create. They don't look that difficult to solve automatically once a human teaches the computer what to do for the given game once. CAPTCHA relies on being able to create new puzzles with zero human effort but which require some human effort to solve. If each puzzle requires human effort to create, then attackers can simply take advantage of the fact that their time is cheaper than yours.
These sort of clever/unusual human detectors can work great on a small scale, when it isn't worth anyone's time to attack them, but fall apart once they get popular. Maybe I'm missing some secret sauce here, but this one certainly looks like one of those.
Re:Stop the Captcha madness
by camtarn on Monday June 25, 2012 @10:00AM
(#4156505)
This particular implementation wouldn't do much... but if you used real images, you could ask the user to e.g. "Pick out the faces", then show six images with two known faces, three known not-faces, and one maybe-face. Serve the same maybe-face to enough users to get a significant face or not-face vote, and use the results to train a facial recognition algorithm.
On a slightly more serious note, this is awful for anyone who has mouse dexterity issues, like older or inexperienced computer users, those using assistive devices, or even people with shaky hands. It also relies in some places on culturally specific assumptions (for instance: put toppings on a pizza... I see some squiggly reddish stuff which seems like it's meant to be bacon, but in the UK bacon doesn't look anything like that!)
Good on them for trying to make the CAPTCHA experience more interesting, but this isn't quite a complete solution...
http://akismet.com/
The clit mouse is designed to be used by touch typists. You don't have to leave the home row to use it (use your thumbs to click).
If you handle it with the index while the other fingers of that hand rest on the keyboard (so that your hand is fixed), it becomes very precise.
I used to find it completely unusable until I finally discovered the proper way to use it (probably when I started to touch type) which was quite an epiphany. I wanted to share just in case you hadn't yet discovered it.
Having a decent cap on the thing also helps: my first TrackPoint (about ten years ago) was on a third-hand laptop, and the rubber had decayed to the point where it was squishy and sticky. Not very pleasant to use :)
However, that solution does not work for everyone. There are those who use smartphones, tablets, or are stuck behind corperate networks that (cannot/will not) allow you to even view or interact with the game.
I love the idea of not having to type in captcha's all the time, but the solution will have to be a universal one; making it easier for the user to verify they are human, while still keeping all the bots out.
In the meantime, at least recaptcha is doing something useful with the time we spend figuring out the captcha's.
Can you elaborate? What do you mean they are doing something useful? I'm not familiar with how recaptcha works but, I have used it on many sites before.
(Thanks!)
More at http://www.google.com/recaptcha/learnmore
Sory, I should have tossed a link in when I made that comment.
There are always two words that you will see. One that is known, and the other is unknown.
Once enough users (lets use 10 for this example) type the same responce to the unknown word (and correctly identify the known word), the unknown word will move to a known status and be matched up with a new unknown word.
Thereby digitizing books! (ever wondered why one of the words is clearer than the other? Now you know!)
* It's called a game but it's just not fun. (Tried about 6 of them.)
* It's annoying to have to use the mouse in 2 dimensions with dragging. This activates the "locate, identify, capture something and drag it someplace else that needs to be identified" part of my brain. Using that part of the brain breaks my train of thought from the message I was thinking of typing.
Captchas are not perfect, and this is a good idea to try and do user testing, but I find it not be an improvement over captchas.
Most of the "games" seems to be "pick 2 out of 4", which gives you only 7 permutations. But it's worse that that, since you can just keep on trying until you find a match.
http://areyouahuman.com/advertisers
After all, I don't want any form of advertising or tracking on my website due to 3rd party captchas.
I would looooove to see the numbers behind this.
These sort of clever/unusual human detectors can work great on a small scale, when it isn't worth anyone's time to attack them, but fall apart once they get popular. Maybe I'm missing some secret sauce here, but this one certainly looks like one of those.