News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by eagerpace on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @02:57PM (#41371408)
To collect data so they can do marketing and advertising to customers.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by winternett on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @04:14PM (#41372451)
The extra code might there to determine your spending habits across other apps and your bank balance and then to determine where you're located so that it can provide information on regional affluence so they can price toothpaste & brushes higher in strategic regions...

That's just an example guess, but the bloat is there for a purpose... I'm pretty sure the app gets updated on intervals too, just like so many others under the guise of "security or functional updates".

We're in an era where data is weaponized for profit maximization... The most simple and seemingly benign data sets when combined strategically can work against consumers deeply.

We need app audit boards now, maybe even on a government level, and specific detail of everything apps do to be displayed in app stores. There should be serious consequences if apps are found to do things that are not detailed in their release/update descriptions. This collected data can persist forever, and be used in some of the most destructive ways.

Device/OS makers also need to do better at preventing/partitioning non-essential apps from collecting data they don't need access to...

Likely reasons why this isn't already in place is because most don't know how it happens, and many others are invested in these companies, so they turn a blind eye on regulation of them.

Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by ragnese on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @04:36PM (#41372704)
To be fair, all of that tracking and data collection would still never add up to some 100MB. It's more likely that they have extremely unoptimized assets (images, icons, fonts, time zone data, sounds, etc) and/or are using one of these janky "frameworks" that let you slap together a half-baked "native" app in a few hours by translating your poorly-written JavaScript into poorly-written native code.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by JohnBooty on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @06:02PM (#41373621)
This is undoubtedly true. It might be doing nefarious things, but it was definitely not written with efficiency in mind.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by vorticalbox on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @04:50PM (#41372858)
From the x thread 80% of the size is pdfs of their toothbrush products.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by ragnese on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @04:57PM (#41372948)
Makes sense. I don't have an X account, so I can only see the linked post (AFAIK).
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by Tagbert on Wednesday August 28, 2024 @08:14PM (#41385818)
Yes, they likely contracted with a third-party development firm to build the app. They didn't pay or even think about optimization. They also didn't think about maintenance. Its likely that they will issue another request for bid when it is time to do another version and the next bid winner will build a new app that is even crappier.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by gruez on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @04:38PM (#41372723)
>The extra code might there to determine your spending habits across other apps and your bank balance and then to determine where you're located so that it can provide information on regional affluence so they can price toothpaste & brushes higher in strategic regions...

1. I highly doubt that's done on device

2. how are they supposed to link you to your bank account? AFAIK cross app tracking is opt in, at least on iOS so unless the user explicitly opts in, you're not going to get a cross-app identifier.

Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by stratocumulus0 on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @05:03PM (#41373020)
Or maybe it's because every other company has an app, just like every company had a hotline at some point. Even if few people will use it, you have to have all the communication channels covered.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by maest on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @05:59PM (#41373591)
I suggest reading the posted link, it's quite informative and saves you from having to make assumptions.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @07:13PM (#41374277)
> The extra code might there to determine your spending habits across other apps and your bank balance and then to determine where you're located so that it can provide information on regional affluence so they can price toothpaste & brushes higher in strategic regions...

I think you're overestimating the competence of the shops that develop those apps. I bet that 90% of the code is just company's standard set of frameworks and advertising SDKs they put in every app without even thinking about it.

Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by barbazoo on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @03:27PM (#41371838)
How does that work here? Say I have that toothbrush, the app, and say I had to sign up to use it. What they know is how long the toothbrush is on. How are they going to monetize that data?
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by johndough on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @03:48PM (#41372135)
> What they know is how long the toothbrush is on. How are they going to monetize that data?

"We noticed that brushing takes you X seconds longer than usual. Do you want to buy new bristles for your tooth brush?"

"We noticed you haven't used our tooth brush in a while. Do you want to buy our new tooth brush?"

"We noticed that you started brushing your teeth earlier than usual. This probably means that you started a new job and can afford our new deluxe premium tooth brush."

"We noticed that you brush your teeth later than usual. That probably means that you met with someone who you can recommend our amazing tooth brush to."

"We noticed that your tooth brushing times are all over the place, so you probably had a child. Buy our new baby tooth brush."

And that is just from the time you brush your teeth. However, the app also collections "Health and fitness and Device or other IDs" according to the app description:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pg.oralb.o...

That means that Oral B can link that data with the data harvested from other apps or data brokers, so they probably know everything about you. Health data seems especially creepy to me. I wonder if it is possible to measure the effectiveness of an advertisement from the heart rate data. At least they can definitely tell if you brush longer after seeing their latest Oral B add on TV/YouTube/some website.

Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by mturmon on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @04:00PM (#41372292)
Yeah, regarding your first point -- the replacement brushes are also an Oral-B product, so prompting for frequent replacement of the brushes would be a way to make more money.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by mbirth on Wednesday August 28, 2024 @06:28AM (#41378004)
In my Sonicare, the brush heads have an NFC chip in them that stores the “runtime”. After xx uses an icon starts blinking on the handle and the app will tell you that the brush head needs to be replaced. But at least you’re free to ignore that and continue using it.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by mrwizardno2 on Wednesday August 28, 2024 @07:09AM (#41378233)
For now... Just wait, some bright-eyed underling will undoubtedly see this comment and then pitch their boss: "Man, oh man! I know how we can increase revenue, let's DISABLE brush heads when they hit 90 days and FORCE the user to buy a new one!" You've just doomed us all. >.< hah!
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by mbirth on Wednesday August 28, 2024 @04:12PM (#41383730)
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by andrewinardeer on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @05:59PM (#41373592)
I'm surprised they haven't gone down the route of TaaS (Toothbrush as a Service), where they sell a crippled device, and for a monthly fee of a few dollars, it will unlock a premium 'Ultra Fast Brush Speed' a la Tesla.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by singleshot_ on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @08:33PM (#41374832)
Sneak a thermometer in there and I bet you could sell me some Tylenol or NyQuil.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by aequitas on Wednesday August 28, 2024 @09:07AM (#41379061)
From a marketing point of view, they don't even need your data. They just recommend/spam you to buy a new brush every few weeks. Als long as they have a way to get into your attention zone, reminding you of them and to push messages for you to keep consuming.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by wholinator2 on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @03:43PM (#41372046)
Well, say the app requests access to your contacts... so you can link up with friends! Or your files... so it can save your data locally! Or your location... well i don't know. The app doesn't only check your bruhing habits, it's 300mb! At any point it could be updated to do any amount of spying and you'll never be able to tell
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by Bluestein on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @05:11PM (#41373096)
> link up with friends!

Competitive brushing!

Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @07:11PM (#41374262)
That is the first thing I see in this thread that has a remote chance of being a legitimate feature! There are people who have trouble brushing regularly, and perhaps it could help some of them.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by Bluestein on Wednesday August 28, 2024 @09:44AM (#41379461)
(You know what? Great point, actually ...)
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by ahazred8ta on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @09:01PM (#41374999)
Oral Peloton
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by anakaine on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @09:56PM (#41375236)
A group of cyclists is known as a Peloton. Do with that what you will with regards to "Oral Peloton".
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by Bluestein on Friday August 30, 2024 @05:02AM (#41398935)
We need a motto. Let's A/B "Where the only teeth inlvolved are in gears!".-
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by alasdair_ on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @04:10PM (#41372396)
Sell it to dental insurance companies who charge different amounts depending on how frequently you brush your teeth and for how long?
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by kuhl on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @11:48PM (#41375749)
This is what Beam Dental did. They used to make a toothbrush and I'm betting they now license their tech to toothbrush makers and act as the middle man for dental insurance companies.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by flerchin on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @03:37PM (#41371964)
I'd always thought that it was about any other data they can slurp from your phone. Presumably knowing your hygiene habits is valuable when correlated with your facebook activty. Just having a list of people that overspend on this type of tech and have the app installed is probably valuable.

tl;dr IDK but they don't do it without a profit motive.

Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by willcipriano on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @03:42PM (#41372034)
You know the underpants gnomes, it's like that:

Step 1: collect data

Step 2: ???

Step 3: Profit

Hopefully you sell the company between Step 1 and 2.

Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by lofaszvanitt on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @03:38PM (#41371988)
Like if the average user uses it for 15 seconds, it might signal them that the existing brushes need to be wider/longer/arced, so users can clean their teeth efficiently in that timeframe.

And yeah, the usual electric toothbrushes are terrible slow since the brush heads are in the size of one teeth, instead of 3-4.

Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by uhtred on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @03:46PM (#41372099)
What permissions does the app ask for? Most likely location for some bullshit Bluetooth feature, and no doubt they request other permissions like contacts and media so you can share with friends that you clean your teeth.

Hey, now oral b know where you are all the time, who you know etc

Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by kjellsbells on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @05:16PM (#41373152)
Looking at my android...notifications and nearby BT devices. Thats it.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by kelnos on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @05:00PM (#41372984)
I can think of a few things at least:

* Collect data on brushing frequency and thoroughness, and sell that data to dental insurance companies. Perhaps not even anonymized, so they can raise your premiums if you don't brush as often or as well as they'd like.

* Nag you to buy brush replacements after a certain amount of time or certain number of uses.

* Use dark patterns to trick you into giving access to other, unrelated data on your phone, and sell this data to third parties.

* Market their other products to you, or even perhaps suggest other things (sold by marketing partners) to buy, like different kinds of toothpaste, floss, mouthwash, etc.

Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by al2o3cr on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @10:54PM (#41375526)

    sell that data to dental insurance companies
I know of at least one startup that tried this the other way - started with a networked toothbrush and created a dental insurer that tracked how much you used it.

They've pivoted away from that to general benefits management (basically every flavor of job-connected insurance that isn't major medical), FWIW...

Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by JasserInicide on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @06:02PM (#41373624)
so they can raise your premiums if you don't brush as often or as well as they'd like.

Shit's already fucking happening with car insurance. Install their app to reduce your premium! It's only a matter of time before it's the other way around.

Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by api on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @05:33PM (#41373328)
That's why most apps exist, which is why I try to install as few apps as possible.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by pfdietz on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @05:13PM (#41373117)
"Here's a list of consumers who were gullible enough to install our app!"
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by conductr on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @06:46PM (#41374079)
They want you to buy new head and they will annoy, I mean notify you, until you do so via the app.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by noman-land on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @08:04PM (#41374638)
Having an app on someone's phone is a huge attention and data opportunity.

You get permissions to whatever you ask for. The unsavvy user will click yes.

You get a push notification channel that can interrupt the user ANY time of day or night and get their immediate attention. Suggesting products and "deals".

Use your imagination. Think like an asshole.

Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by chemmail on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @09:22PM (#41375088)
China pays big bucks for the data so they know exactly when everyone is brushing their teeth and know exactly what time to attack.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by somedude895 on Wednesday August 28, 2024 @08:49AM (#41378893)
The app probably makes you enter personal information like age and location, which is already very valuable.

But honestly I'd say that it's probably more about them being able to market their own products to you by displaying ads and sending you push notifications on new deals on brushes, rather than selling your data to third parties.

Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by genocidicbunny on Thursday August 29, 2024 @04:00PM (#41394718)
That sort of data can be extremely useful to pattern someone. Most people brush their teeth either in the morning, or before bedtime (or both ideally.) So just knowing _when_ they're brushing their teeth you can determine their sleep pattern, and thus match that up somewhat to a timezone. On it's own this isn't incredibly useful, but combined with some other data it becomes a lot more useful to identify someone.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by lowtech8 on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @03:15PM (#41371690)
And charge them more, maybe sell some of their personal data too
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by maccard on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @03:47PM (#41372107)
To who?

Say I have an app with 1M downloads. Who do I sell 1M email addresses and the fact they've bought a toothbrush to?

Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by johndough on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @03:55PM (#41372218)
People who install a tooth brushing app will probably buy all kinds of electronics stuff, so I'd wager that such a list would be somewhat valuable.
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by maccard on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @06:25PM (#41373875)
I hear these things, but I don’t know who these companies are. It feels a bit like the tv license ban
Re:Why is the Oral-B iOS app almost 300 MB? And why is Colga... by ragnese on Tuesday August 27, 2024 @04:42PM (#41372766)
Honestly, even if it's not sustainable and never ends up profitable, I'd be willing to bet there are multiple entities that exist that would pay you some ridiculous amount of money for that info just to try to resell that info or attempt to monetize it directly "some day".

Think about how many companies have pivoted to burning cash on adding "AI" to their products. How many of those cases are going to end up actually being a good business decision? Probably very few. It's likely the same with everyone just wanting "data" to "analyze"--even if they have no idea how it might be useful.