News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable by mikeash on Friday June 15, 2012 @11:44AM (#4117044)
Many of Apple's suppliers are also competitors. Samsung, for example, supplies a lot of iPhone parts while also selling iPhone competitors. I doubt it would be that difficult for others to source an equivalent display, if they're willing to pay an equivalent price,
Re:The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable by latch on Friday June 15, 2012 @12:17PM (#4117215)
This isn't how it works. Apple has exclusive deals in place with many of its suppliers. Many of the parts Apple buy are either not available for anyone else, or not available at the same price.

One way Apple has done this is to provide some of the initial capital needed for new plants/technologies. For example, if retooling a plant for new LCD production costs $1 billion, Apple might front 1/2 the money in exchange for 6-18month exclusivity on those panels.

Also, Apple has scale in its favor. They can negotiate better terms and ensure that their quota gets filled first.

Re:The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable by Someone on Friday June 15, 2012 @04:37PM (#4118593)
On the other hand, there is nothing that prevents the likes of HP, Acer, Dell and Samsung to do the same. All of them could have the economics of scale Apple enjoys, but they choose to have a more diverse product line instead.

Your argument would carry more weight if Apple had a much larger chunk of the market than all others.

Re:The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable by CamperBob2 on Friday June 15, 2012 @10:26PM (#4119686)
Your argument would carry more weight if Apple had a much larger chunk of the market than all others.

For "Retina"-class displays, they absolutely do.

It was easy to see this coming years ago, and it was indeed inexcusable for everyone else to be caught flat-footed. Any fool should have been able to see exactly what was going to happen the minute they laid eyes on a non-Retina iPad.

Re:The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable by 2muchcoffeeman on Friday June 15, 2012 @06:26PM (#4119040)
I don't buy it. The traditional cycle, if Apple had a new technology first, is Apple releases it, wait a year and everybody else can do it just as well and probably cheaper. You can get Android handsets whose specs are better than the iPhone 4 in every way except the screen.

If a manufacturer could out do the iPhone 4, iPad or MBP screen, they would have. Especially since they are traditionally spec driven.

Re:The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable by Someone on Sunday June 17, 2012 @02:28AM (#4122379)
"If a manufacturer could out do the iPhone 4, iPad or MBP screen, they would have. Especially since they are traditionally spec driven."

I think a major reason other manufacturers haven't done this may be that they ship Windows boxes. My logic for that is as follows:

- There are manufacturers that ship numbers of their high-end laptops that are in the same order as the number of MacBook Pro's that Apple ships.

- Apple, by supplying only one form factor, reaps economies of scale.

- That form factor may be suboptimal for some, but it is what they will have to buy if they want to run Mac OS.

- If other manufacturers tried the same, they would lose sales to other parties that do provide machines with different feature sets that also run Windows.

On the other hand, I do not know whether it is that more expensive to have a single high-DPI line crank out multiple sizes of display. If it is not, it all boils down to balls. Other manufacturers may be spec driven, but they do that by buying the best the market has to offer. Apple, on the other hand, is willing (and able) to tell the market what it wants, and put money on the table up-front for it.

Re:The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable by mikeash on Friday June 15, 2012 @09:35PM (#4119596)
There are Android phones with screen resolutions equal or superior to that of the iPhone. They may not do as well in less concrete terms like overall quality, but when it comes to common specs with numbers on them, you can do better on Android.
Re:The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable by 2muchcoffeeman on Saturday June 16, 2012 @10:00AM (#4120677)
gareim suggested the HTC Rezound and Xperia S below. You're right.
Re:The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable by spullara on Saturday June 16, 2012 @01:13AM (#4119925)
You cannot get an Android phone with the DPI of an iPhone 4 retina display. I'm sure you know that but you clouded the issue by referencing screen resolution.
Re:The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable by danboarder on Saturday June 16, 2012 @04:31AM (#4120156)
You're mistaken. There are several Android phones with comparable DPI, as well as others with higher DPI. Edit: For example, while the iPhone4 is 329 DPI, one LG display for thi years phones is 440 DPI.
Re:The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable by spullara on Saturday June 16, 2012 @06:24PM (#4121660)
The LG phone was a prototype, not a shipping phone.

http://www.macmyth.com/2012/06/touch-screens-5-440-dpi-at-lg...

But as others noted there are some with comparable displays, I was just unfamiliar with them.

Re:The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable by gareim on Saturday June 16, 2012 @03:07AM (#4120064)
HTC Rezound and Sony Xperia S?

Does this change your point?

Re:The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable by mikeash on Saturday June 16, 2012 @06:09PM (#4121634)
Resolution is a vague word that can mean DPI, and it's how I was using it there. As other replies to you point out, Android phones with higher DPIs do exist. Can I expect an apology now?
Re:The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable by molmalo on Saturday June 16, 2012 @02:31AM (#4120020)
I think it's an extremely smart strategy from Samsung to avoid putting all their eggs in one basket. Outside the USA, Apple's market share is not as important, as it is inside. And if you think about it, it's incredible hard to market a brand as being both: Premium AND Mass-Market.

For example, a Mass-Market brand, like Casio, may produce some nice Premium products [1], and those products may sell decently. But it's hard for them to target and sell products to people who want "the best", for the simple fact that subconsciously (and sadly) price and quality are mixed, and marketing exploits that fact. It doesn't have to be "the best" technically, but subjectively (perceived value, coolness, status brand and so on).

And of course, one of the main reasons that a product is considered Premium is its exclusivity. That's the problem that Armani faces right now, with its multiple brands targeted at different segments and markets, making their brand equity dilute[2]. Now imagine what would happen if Rolex made a cheaper watch, to compete with Casio.

Before you think I'm comparing in the same terms the competence between Apple/Samsung to Rolex/Casio (that hardly compete each other), I know it's not the best analogy. At least in the smartphone and tablet market, their products overlap. But what I'm saying is that their products are targeted to different segments. Apple is clearly a Premium brand. Samsung is a Mass-Market brand. Apple takes advantage of their brand value perception, and uses products like that screen to preserve and push that brand value forward. Samsung and the others instead, are focusing in the bigger market, people that will not spend half the household's monthly income (or even 2 or 3 full household's monthly income in some countries in Europe, Americas and Asia) in a computer. [3] So, they focus in building products with the best features possible while at the same time, having the lowest possible price. When they make a premium product, they do it to position their brand against other Mass-market Brands (DELL vs ASUS, Samsung vs HTC vs Motorola). Not to compete with a Premium Brand.

If those screens are still expensive to produce in large quantities, Samsung (or any other producing them) has not the need to create a product yet to use them, simply because they sell those screens anyway. And Apple is surely paying a nice premium to keep it that way. When they can start producing those screens at larger quantities, sure, there will be others using them.

But by keeping this strategy, Samsung is able to make money from both markets (premium and mass-market), while Apple is able to keep it's brand equity, in this case, by maintaining the exclusivity of the display. It's a very profitable win-win strategy.

And unless someone has VERY deep pockets to pay the same and more than Apple to cut the deal... (and Apple has lots of cash to avoid this from happening) I doubt that someone can offer those displays right now. Hopefully in a year, it will be easier and we can have more and more displays like this.

Until then... "I doubt it would be that difficult for others to source an equivalent display" Yes, it's that difficult. :)

[1] http://www.watchshop.com/Premium-G-Shock-Watches.html [2] http://www.venturerepublic.com/resources/giorgio_armani_-_th... [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_Wide_Smartphone_Sale...

Re:The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable by calciphus on Friday June 15, 2012 @12:08PM (#4117171)
Well, Apple certainly isn't manufacturing the displays themselves, so that's partially true. However, like on the iPad3 - Apple probably paid the manufacturer (in that case, Samsung) for a large chunk of the NRE to develop that screen, and has in return been granted some period of exclusivity to it. Knowing Samsung, it's probably 12-18 months. On the laptop display, I don't know if we know yet who supplies them, but expect a similar deal.
Re:The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable by oacgnol on Friday June 15, 2012 @01:47PM (#4117717)
Those are different divisions of Samsung. IIRC, Samsung's semiconductor and mobile corporate arms are separate entities. I think it's a weird legal arrangement that allows them to do business with direct competitors without hurting their bottom lines.