scif = sensitive compartmented information facility

A room that is supposed to be highly secure with secure communication channels where it is safe to handle or transmit secret information.

A real life "cone of silence"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_of_Silence_%28Get_Smart%2...

There's a kajillion ways to extract info via analog hole from a well-known room. Unless this room has counter-measures (that are unlikely to be accepted by an authoritarian government) this ain't surprising really.

SCIF construction procedure is made explicitly to counter analog (and digital) intelligence collection.

I highly suspect that if the government of a host country didn’t let a guest country follow standard construction procedures like the use of high density construction materials, then the guest country would either not continue construction of the diplomatic outpost or at the very least they would not proceed with using their (now) vulnerable storage closet as a scif.

You must be very naive as to the general Conops of the NK government.

Can you elaborate?

You think the NK government doesn’t have every possible room in every possibly interesting room in their country bugged?

A SCIF is not a magic box. You can penetrate almost anything, especially a nation who really wants to hear what you are doing.

I wonder if a trusted laptop with VR goggles and a VPN would be sufficient to transmit and read most information. For added security, use an external modified keyboard that is not vulnerable to being tapped.

Which do you think is more likely, the scif was compromised, or one of the people in the scif was?

He didn't specify whether the scif itself was bugged or they planted a bug on someone, just that it wasn't a leak.

Sorry I really want to understand this comment. Can you help?

> Since anything could only be brought in through diplomatic pouches it created an attack vector of one.

Are you presenting that as a good or bad thing? If there is only one attack vector, that makes it easier to defend against, right?

> One official let something slip, which meant a bug had somehow gotten into the scif.

You mean the North Korean or German official?

The NK official probably mentioned something that was only said in the SCIF

And I'm guessing the diplomatic pouches aren't fully in the custody of the german gov at all times there? idk

Correct

Even in the US, nothing is technically stopping you from walking into a SCIF with a phone most of the time. We used the honor system.

I would almost automatically assume that any SCIF in a foreign country was compromised to some degree.

Which would completely invalidate the entire purpose of the SCIF, no? Unless it exists to feed fake info to the locals?

It's government. Security Theater/"Look, we're trying" is usually more important than reality.

It's weird. On the one hand governments are devious and brutal oppressors of freedom, on the other hand governments are calculating masters of subterfuge faking moon-landings and implanting microtransmitters by vaccination, on a third hand governments are money-wasting incompetent douches who can't even tie their shoes, and on a fourth hand governments are morally bankrupt and do everything to get re-elected. A strange beast, with four hands, no less!

"Enemy is strong and weak" seems like a universal trait for any propaganda, I really have no idea why some want to say that it's a special fascism trait.

It is the exact line the US is taking on Russia. “Ukraine need help now or soon Russia will be in SOME_NATO_COUNTRY” and “Russia is loosing hard” at the same time, often in the same “according to government officials…” speak.

You frame this as a contradiction but a moment of reflection reveals that it's not.

If the US continues to aid Ukraine, then it's likely that Ukraine will be able to beat Russia eventually, due to the West's superior military equipment and tactics.

If the US stops aiding Ukraine, it will be much more difficult for Ukraine to beat Russia. If Russia achieves its goals and gains control of Ukraine, then yes, other NATO countries will be in danger.

Some of the "russia is loosing hard" news is propaganda of course, to raise the morale of people fighting for their homeland. I find it hard to get too mad about that.

Most people's "knowledge of government" is more like "knowledge of stereotypes & tropes about government".

Also, it can be more about the emotions of the humans doing the attributing than about the real governments. Just look at all the bizarre, contradictory, and fridge-test-flunking attributes which humans have attributed to gods and related mythical beings.

With a creature as big as a modern government, there isn't as much contradiction in such claims as it sounds, especially if considered with regard to the task at hand. Tasks differ.

If a modern government wants an $unpopular_group exterminated, they can probably do so with brutal efficiency, given the tools at their disposal and the overall balance of power between the state and individuals.

If a modern government wants to win a war, well, half of those governments lose, because the other side is usually way more powerful than a random $unpopular_group.

If a modern government wants to achieve some nebulous goal such as "defeat disinformation" or "root out racism", I would bet on a spectacular bumbling failure with a lot of graft every time.

> Which would completely invalidate the entire purpose of the SCIF, no?

Yes. But if you belong in there, nobody is going to second guess you.

It’s probably not an all or nothing prospect. Raise the costs enough/mitigate the threat in atleast some of them etc

> nothing is technically stopping you from walking into a SCIF with a phone most of the time

That is ridiculous.

I've been to multiple embassies as a nobody and no electronics were allowed and this was strictly enforced.

I added “most of the time” to match my experience. If the entire building is a SCIF, I’ve usually left my phone in the car. If it’s just a room in a building, they usually have lockers outside and use the honor system.

I agree it's ridiculous (though not in the way you meant), but he is telling the truth. I don't doubt that there are facilities which are watched as closely as you describe, but not all are. I have worked in a SCIF where the only thing stopping me from bringing in a phone was the fact that I said I wouldn't, and I keep my word.

I've been to tiny embassies and I was thoroughly searched and anything remotely looking like an electronic device was temporarily confiscated.

They usually make a big deal out of it.

This in embassies between friendly nations!

Again, I don't doubt that some facilities do have that level of scrutiny. I'm simply saying that not all do.

It's not universal though: [https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/10/the-republican-scif-i...]

If you work in a scif, then I might assume you already have a security clearance and were read-in to the program. Is so, that might explain the trust.

I'm not sure what you mean about the NK situation making the diplomatic pouch an attack vector? Can you elaborate?

Fun fact, those "pouches" don't have to be a pouch or even a bag. They can be boxes or even crates and have been used for smuggling in the past, including drugs, weapons, gold and even - allegedly - people.

TA mentions that they shipped in construction materials via diplomatic containers.

Yeah. I'm still not sure how to parse the GP's comment, "it created an attack vector of one". On its face, that sounds like a good thing, less attack vectors!

I mean, not like sourcing materials locally alleviates things. Apparently the US embassy in Moscow was discovered to have listening devices mixed in the concrete used to construct it...

The person who was bugged, brought the bug into the embassy via the bag. Probably some generic item was modified to contain the spy gear and then supplied to the person. I don't think the person brought it into the secure area intentionally.

> I mean, not like sourcing materials locally alleviates things. Apparently the US embassy in Moscow was discovered to have listening devices mixed in the concrete used to construct it...

I think this was the main reason why they shipped construction materials in. And then it makes sense to use containers that are tamper-resistant enough to be able to trust its contents.

In a french documentary about the DGSE (French foreign intelligence service), some former DGSE officials explained that when France took delivery of their new embassy in Poland during the cold war, they found it riddled with bugs. The cabling was hidden inside the concrete. They had to dig a several meters deep trench all around the embassy and severe all cables to isolate it before they could test each cable one by one. I don't know how they ever got comfortable they found every one of them.

"I don't know how they ever got comfortable they found every one of them"

If you take opsec serious, you should never be too comfortable.

And as far as I know with embassies and alike, there is the compromise of at least one room, that is very surveillance proof and checked regulary.

maybe not underestimate, but no one can really know if the truly culpride got caught