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Re:Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming ... by MangoCoffee on Monday July 08, 2024 @03:37AM (#40903353)
The U.S. is not going to shut down Boeing. How many jobs would be lost if that happened, especially in this economy?

The fine is quite low.

Re:Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming ... by immibis on Monday July 08, 2024 @04:20AM (#40903562)
The US has propped up Boeing, because it's primarily a military contractor.
Re:Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming ... by dralley on Monday July 08, 2024 @09:00AM (#40905044)
People keep saying this but it borders on conspiracy talk. The Air Force leadership has been pissed off at Boeing for well over a decade. Every project they've been given has turned into a clusterfuck even moreso than average. They fortunately had the foresight to not give them any cost-plus contracts, so at least it's Boeing eating most of the cost overruns rather than the Air Force, but the point remains that Boeing mismanagement has been a headache for the military.

Politicians care about getting elected, which means they don't want layoffs on their watch. Politicians don't care what the military thinks or else they'd stop funding a lot of dumb projects that the military doesn't give a shit about - of which there are many.

There are so many examples of congress putting their hand on the scale that I really don't understand the popular insistence that the military is the problem here.

Re:Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming ... by SJC_Hacker on Monday July 08, 2024 @12:09PM (#40906620)
> The Air Force leadership has been pissed off at Boeing for well over a decade.

Military brass don't control procurement. That would be Congress. In fact the military often frequently has systems it doesn't want/need precisely because Congress. See the Zumwalt destroyer and the Littoral Combat Ship.

Re:Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming ... by bombcar on Monday July 08, 2024 @10:38AM (#40905841)
The military isn't the problem, it's that the military has no other options.

Who else are they going to buy planes to bomb different-colored countries with? SpaceX? Airbus? It is to laugh.

When you get a company that is too big to fail, it rests directly on the government for not identifying and solving the issue earlier.

Re:Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming ... by zokier on Monday July 08, 2024 @12:03PM (#40906566)
Boeing hasn't won any major military aircraft deals in recent decades.

The latest big bomber purchase, B-21, went to Northrop Grumman, as did the not so recent B-2. Fighters have been going to Lockheed (F-22 and F-35).

The biggest recent win for Boeing was KC-46 tanker airplane, which is just modified 767. I suppose there is also the handful of F-15EXes that are vestige from their McDonnell Douglas merger.

Re:Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming ... by anticensor on Wednesday July 10, 2024 @03:27PM (#40930525)
It's not like the law doesn't have a way to ban a contractor from government contracts. In fact, the law has multiple offences that are punishable by a ban from government procurement contracts.
Re:Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming ... by akira2501 on Monday July 08, 2024 @04:48AM (#40903721)
> The U.S. is not going to shut down Boeing.

It's a monopoly. Just break it up.

> How many jobs would be lost if that happened

"We don't negotiate with [economic] terrorists."

> especially in this economy?

$77b annual revenue. Positive quarterly growth rate the last 8 out of 12 quarters. Two global wars we refuse to negotiate peace in and Boeing is a major weapons supplier.

Then again, if you kill and scare enough people with faulty planes, the state of the economy will be immaterial to what will happen to your interests.

Re:Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming ... by robertlagrant on Monday July 08, 2024 @05:13AM (#40903859)
> "We don't negotiate with [economic] terrorists."

This is just so silly. Shutting down a company results in people losing their jobs. No terrorists involved.

Re:Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming ... by grecy on Monday July 08, 2024 @08:10AM (#40904667)
> Shutting down a company results in people losing their jobs. No terrorists involved.

I'm always baffled by this unholy protection of "jobs".

Making asbestos essentially illegal resulted in tens of thousands of people losing their jobs and shutting down coal plants will do the same.

It makes no sense to protect jobs at all costs, and doing so can have very bad outcomes.

If a company is doing something illegal or dangerous or that does not serve society anymore, we shouldn't bend over backwards just because people will lose their jobs.

Re:Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming ... by robertlagrant on Monday July 08, 2024 @08:21AM (#40904763)
> I'm always baffled by this unholy protection of "jobs".

I wasn't invoking any unholy protection of jobs. It's very clear the context I was replying to: that "job loss" isn't "economic terrorism".

Can we not treat the comment section as that party game where people only read the previous sentence of the story and write a follow-on sentence? You have the whole thread available to you.

Re:Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming ... by Zigurd on Monday July 08, 2024 @12:42PM (#40906937)
Spirit Aerosystem will soon no longer exist. but the assets and almost all the jobs will be divided between Boeing and Airbus. If Boeing were split up the result would be similar.
Re:Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming ... by akira2501 on Monday July 08, 2024 @01:13PM (#40907221)
> Shutting down a company results in people losing their jobs.

And ending murder and child victims results in people (investigators, litigators, counselors) losing their jobs. Should we stop trying to solve these problems too?

Re:Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming ... by robertlagrant on Monday July 08, 2024 @03:35PM (#40908691)
Once again, what I'm saying is "people losing their jobs is a consequence of shutting down a business" is not "economic terrorism".
Re:Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming ... by akira2501 on Monday July 08, 2024 @03:59PM (#40908971)
When the people who run those business factor this exact thing into their decision making, then yes, it's precisely that. You're acting as if the company is somehow entirely detached from these circumstances or that this all happened to them by accident.
Re:Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming ... by plumarr on Tuesday July 09, 2024 @10:56AM (#40916873)
There is two aspects to a company : - one that benefits a few private people, mainly the share holders and high level manager/executives - one that benefits the society as a whole, mainly through the company production/services and the salaries of its employes

There is an option to punish the first aspect while limiting the damage on the second one : the nationalisation of the company, with limited compasation to its shareholder. Strangely it seems to only be done or considered to save "to big to fail" business, such as bank, in time of crisis, not as a tool of law enforcement.