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Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by EricE on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @03:44PM (#40662179)
Fossil fuels are not rare. Indeed, the name "fossil fuels" was marketing by Rockefeller and Standard Oil to create the impression of scarcity - much like Debeers has been doing with diamonds.
Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by ben_w on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @03:58PM (#40662367)
> Indeed, the name "fossil fuels" was marketing by Rockefeller and Standard Oil to create the impression of scarcity

I doubt this:

"The auncient Philosophers affirme, that there haue bene founde fishes vnder the earth, who (for that cause) they called Focilles [French focilles]."

- E. Fenton, translation of P. Boaistuau, Certaine secrete wonders of nature, containing a descriptio[n] of sundry strange things • (translated by Edward Fenton) · 1st edition, 1569, https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?q=fossil&tl=true, https://www.oed.com/dictionary/fossil_n?tab=meaning_and_use#...

"From French fossile, from Latin fossilis (“something which has been dug up”), from fodio (“I dig up”)."

- https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fossil

Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by Two4 on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @04:03PM (#40662430)
He's not saying Standard Oil invented the term fossil, he's saying they invented/popularised the term "fossil fuel"
Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by lupusreal on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @04:36PM (#40662801)
Google ngrams reveals his claim to be flagrant horse shit. The term wasn't popular until several decades after standard oil ceased to exist.
Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by selimthegrim on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @09:27PM (#40664995)
That may be true, but Google ngrams is hardly holy writ in the matter.
Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by dredmorbius on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @09:50PM (#40665138)
That may be true, but EricE is parroting long-since-debunked fake Facebook memes:

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40664837>

Enough bullshit flinging already, eh?

Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by dredmorbius on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @08:49PM (#40664803)
Oddly enough, the term only really took off in the 1970s:

<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=fossil%20fuel&...>

Zooming in on the 19th century, the term was already seeing use in the 1770s/80s, and was rising in usage well before 1860, by which time it had reached a peak.

<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=fossil+fuel&ye...>

The Standard Oil Company was founded in 1882. Its predecessor Standard Oil Company of Ohio was founded in 1870.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil>

I call bullshit on EricE's unfounded claims.

Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by dredmorbius on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @09:00PM (#40664856)
"Fossil" originates as "obtained by digging", and refers to any mineral resource so obtained. Transferrence to "fossilised remains" (as in dinosaur bones, wood, plants, etc.) is secondary.

1610s, "any thing dug up;" 1650s (adj.) "obtained by digging" (of coal, salt, etc.), from French fossile (16c.), from Latin fossilis "dug up," from fossus, past participle of fodere "to dig," from PIE root bhedh- "to dig, pierce."*

Restricted noun sense of "geological remains of a plant or animal" is from 1736 (the adjective in the sense "pertaining to fossils" is from 1660s); slang meaning "old person" first recorded 1859. Fossil fuel (1833) preserves the earlier, broader sense.

<https://www.etymonline.com/word/fossil>

I'll note that the 1833 date for "fossil fuel" predates establishment of Standard Oil or its predecessors by four decades.

Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by dredmorbius on Thursday June 13, 2024 @04:40PM (#40674467)
To be clear: I was agreeing with and amplifying the parent comment, not disagreeing with or correcting it.
Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by llamaimperative on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @03:56PM (#40662333)
You oughta go start an oil company then! The market is booming, can’t imagine how well you’d do with your secret knowledge about scarcity being all a marketing ploy.
Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by akira2501 on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @04:16PM (#40662583)
Do you really believe that the number of players in the market is a function of scarcity?
Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by llamaimperative on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @05:14PM (#40663195)
I think if something important to the market is scarce for other players but abundant for you, then you can easily go make a boatload of money. Just basic supply and demand.
Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by akira2501 on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @08:00PM (#40664490)
> Just basic supply and demand.

Ah. And where do "cartels" fit into that structure?

Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by cjohnson318 on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @05:03PM (#40663087)
I've worked in oil and gas for years. The only reason we're fracking wells with 2000lbs of sand per foot on a 1-2mi horizontal well is because the easy oil in U.S. is all gone. If you could drill a vertical well and have oil gush out like it does in There Will Be Blood, then people would be doing it. Hydraulic fracking only hit snooze on Peak Oil. All of the easy oil is gone, and we're fracking what's left.
Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by llsf on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @10:08PM (#40665241)
Yes, oil is a limited resource. US became recently the largest oil producer in the world (source: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61545) and the additional output comes from the Permian basin only.

Texas became the 8th larger economy thanks to the increasing oil production (larger than Russia or Canada). But Texas should invest that money (like Norway or UAE does) as it won't last for ever. When oil is gone (or too expensive to extract) people will leave Texas, and Texas will be a wasteland with orphan wells everywhere polluting underground water.

In general, it would be wise for US to get an exit plan, for when oil would not be so easy to extract (yes it is more difficult now, but the oil price is still high enough). Oil price can be counter intuitive as it is the main fuel of the world economy. So, if the production declines, the price can go up, but not too much. At some point, economies would shutdown, and the demand would fall sharply. Only the countries that would be out of oil (i.e. using electricity from nuclear, solar, wind, hydro) would continue to be humming. The other countries would enter in chaos, unrest and war. Which would generate economical migrations and more chaos.

Again countries should plan for peak fossil fuel, and even if they are lucky to have some oil underground, they should plan to massively transform their economy to electricity and transition the production from fossil to more sustainable production like nuclear, solar, wind and hydro.

Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by cjohnson318 on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @10:50PM (#40665438)
> it would be wise for US to get an exit plan

That would be great, but I think we're just going to enjoy the ride while it lasts. Some states are going to aggressively invest in solutions, others will deny any problem exists and then ask for handouts when things go sideways, the government is going to flip flop every one or two terms. Honestly that's one of the better realistic scenarios that we could hope for.

Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by llsf on Thursday June 13, 2024 @12:42AM (#40666024)
I agree, that is a likely scenario in US and other countries.

The time horizon for those issues is not compatible with electoral terms. There is no incentive for any politician to tackle such big issue. Even though it might become existential. We would deal with the externalities until we get swallowed as it becomes unavoidable. The more we wait and the more painful it would be.

Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by bradknowles on Saturday June 15, 2024 @08:15PM (#40693654)
Once the Robber Oil Barons have lined their pockets with enough money, they will be free to leave Texas for any other location around the world where they can exploit the local population in all the criminal ways, and make themselves even richer.

That’s what they do. Always.

Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by defrost on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @10:23PM (#40665323)

   Global carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuels and industry totaled 37.15 billion metric tons (GtCO₂) in 2022. Emissions are projected to have risen 1.1 percent in 2023 to reach a record high of 37.55 GtCO₂. 
Let's face it, being the largest whale hunter isn't something to boast about.

Instead of pushing upwards to break the 40 Gigatonne per annum ceiling maybe work to reduce consumption patterns, efficiencies, question whether high cost of energy environments are the ideal locations for populations to expand into, etc.

Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by llsf on Thursday June 13, 2024 @12:54AM (#40666080)
I was not boasting. But I was echoing the sentiment that we (US) can produce more oil if we want to (as we currently do), as it was an argument against fossil fuel being a limited resource.

The fact that US (Texas in particular) is producing more now, does not mean that the resource is unlimited. Like mentioned before we produce more, but it is more difficult and expensive to produce oil (and not count the ecological impact of fracking).

The only thing that we produce more than ever, means that we are accelerating as we are seeing the wall coming. We are addict to fossil fuel and it is a hell of drug. It is free, we just have to drill. It is energy dense. But like a drug, the more we use it and the less easy it is to use something else.

We need to withdraw, and wean off. The more we wait and the faster the withdrawal would have to be. US needs to build new (extend the old) nuclear reactors, modernize the grid as electricity will power the country more and more, from transportation, heating/cooling, industry, etc.

Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by defrost on Thursday June 13, 2024 @01:07AM (#40666150)
Fair enough and to be clear I didn't read your comment as such, I added context to the figures to remind others that just because it's there and can be extracted doesn't men that it should.

FWiW I've spent decades in mineral and energy resource exploration and modelling and would likely be regarded by many as "part of the problem".

I'm left with a keen sense of increasing effort for decreasing supply and a strong sense a large part of the problem lies with demand and expectations.

Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by Dylan16807 on Thursday June 13, 2024 @01:57AM (#40666368)
We have perfectly good plans for shifting off oil as price rises.

If CO2 wasn't building up so fast, the situation would almost be easy.

Re:Water is bursting from another abandoned West Texas oil w... by dredmorbius on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @08:56PM (#40664837)
... "fossil fuels" was marketing by Rockefeller ...

Where on Earth did you ever hear such a thing?

Update / edit:

Apparently this is a fake meme floating around Facebook and elsewhere, dating back at least three years:

(Factcheck, 2022): "Facebook posts falsely claim US oil magnate coined term ‘fossil fuels’ to introduce ‘idea of scarcity’, boosting oil prices"

<https://factcheck.afp.com/facebook-posts-falsely-claim-us-oi...>

(Reuters, 2021): "The term ‘fossil fuel’ was not coined by John D. Rockefeller to trick people into thinking oil is a scarce commodity"

<https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1N2QQ1UK/> Archive / paywall: <https://archive.is/st4q6>

And another debunk from Politifact in 2022: <https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/08/facebook-p...>

I'd strongly encourage folks to improve their media literacy.