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Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by Nition on Monday June 10, 2024 @05:48PM (#40639568)
Aside from the search and Siri improvements, I'm really not sure about the usefulness of all the generative stuff Apple is suggesting we might use here.

If you spend an hour drawing a picture for someone for their birthday and send it to them, a great deal of the value to them is not in the quality of the picture but in the fact that you went to the effort, and that it's something unique only you could produce for them by giving your time. The work is more satisfying to the creator as well - if you've ever used something you built yourself that you're proud of vs. something you bought you must have felt this. The AI image that Tania generated in a few seconds might be fun the first time, but quickly becomes just spam filling most of a page of conversation, adding nothing.

If you make up a bedtime story for your child, starring them, with the things they're interested in, a great deal of the value to them is not in the quality of the story but... same thing as above. I don't think Apple's idea of reading an AI story off your phone instead is going to have the same impact.

In a world where you can have anything the value of everything is nothing.

Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by bredren on Monday June 10, 2024 @06:20PM (#40639873)
I've got a fairly sophisticated and detailed story world I've been building up with my kid, it always starts the same way and there are known characters.

We've been building this up for some time, this tiny universe is the most common thing for me to respond to "will you tell me a story?" (something that is requested sometimes several times a day) since it is so deeply ingrained in both our heads.

Yesterday, while driving to pick up burritos, I dictated a broad set of detailed points, including the complete introductory sequence to the story to gpt-4o and asked it to tell a new adventure based on all of the context.

It did an amazing job at it. I was able to see my kid's reaction in the reflection of the mirrors and it did not take away from what we already had. It actually gave me some new ideas on where I can take it when I'm doing it myself.

If people lean on gen ai with none of their own personal, creative contributions they're not going to get interesting results.

But I know you can go to the effort to create and create and create and then on top of that layer on gen AI--it can knock it out of the park.

In this way, I see gen AI capabilities as simply another tool that can be used best with practice, like a synthesizer after previously only having a piano or organ.

Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by Nition on Monday June 10, 2024 @06:37PM (#40640044)
That's a very valid rebuttal to my comment. I think this kind of "force multiplier" use for AI is the most effective one we have right now; I've noticed the same thing with GPT-4 for programming. I know the code well enough to double check the output, but AI can still save time in writing it, or sometimes come up with a strategy that I may not have.

Maybe the fact that you did the dictation together with your child present is also notable. Even though you used the AI, you were still doing an activity together and they see you doing it for them.

Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by tkgally on Monday June 10, 2024 @08:31PM (#40640941)
Meta comment: This back-and-forth between Nition and bredren is one of the best exchanges I’ve read on HN recently. Thanks to both of you.
Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by bradgessler on Monday June 10, 2024 @08:42PM (#40641017)
The best articulation of what the industry is currently calling “AI” is “augmented intelligence”—this wording captures that these are tools that can enhance intelligence, not replace it or come up with its own ideas.
Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by baapercollege on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @01:35AM (#40642751)
In fact, by allowing people to generate photos for birthday wishes, apple is elevating the bottomline not lowering the topline. The person who wants to put in the effort and send a hand-drawn image would often not want to resort to a ready-made machine creation. OTOH, the simple "HBD Mom" sender would now send "Happy Birthday Mom <genmoji>" and an image...
Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by s3p on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @10:58AM (#40646934)
Oh god.. if someone sent me Ai generated slop for my birthday I would be bothered. A simple happy birthday is fine!
Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by solarmist on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @11:22AM (#40647291)
What about things like GIPHY reactions? I’m guessing you’re not a fan of those either or using quotes from well known people. There shortcuts have existed as long as people have been writing or drawing. They just get easier and more powerful over time.

I view this as just extending that to custom reactions and making them more flexible expanding their range of uses.

Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by jjfoooo4 on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @11:47PM (#40654265)
Do you think as much creativity and effort would have gone into the story if you had access to AI from the start?
Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by bredren on Thursday June 13, 2024 @06:02PM (#40675345)
Given current interfaces, yes. AR via smartphone or otherwise remain invasive to interpersonal communication in 2024.
Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by rising-sky on Monday June 10, 2024 @06:02PM (#40639699)
You could say the same thing for sending a Happy Birthday text, versus a hand written letter or card. Nothing is stopping a person from sending the latter today, and yes they are more appreciated, but people also appreciate the text. For example, if you're remote and perhaps don't have that deep of a relationship with them
Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by Nition on Monday June 10, 2024 @06:12PM (#40639804)
I guess the question is, is sending an AI Happy Birthday image better than sending a Happy Birthday text?
Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by cchance on Monday June 10, 2024 @06:44PM (#40640109)
Nope their identical, but the AI one at least looks cool lol
Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by anon22981 on Monday June 10, 2024 @06:11PM (#40639786)
Your analogy does not apply at all.
Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by sensanaty on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @03:20AM (#40643511)
If a friend of mine sent me some AI generated slop for my birthday I'd be more offended than if they just sent me a text that only contains the letters "hb"
Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by Almondsetat on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @04:31AM (#40643897)
Birthday cards are slop too
Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by sensanaty on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @06:34AM (#40644617)
The messages inside of them, which are presumably not AI-generated, aren't however.
Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by skybrian on Monday June 10, 2024 @06:21PM (#40639884)
The value of a gift isn't solely on how much you worked on it or what you spent on it. It can also be in picking out the right one, if you picked something good.

Context will be more important when the gift itself is easy.

Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by nperrier on Monday June 10, 2024 @06:13PM (#40639810)
I would argue the same thing applies when you buy a card from Hallmark
Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by Nition on Monday June 10, 2024 @06:26PM (#40639934)
I sometimes think the physical world has been going through a similar time, where most of what we own and receive is ephemeral, mass-produced, lacking in real significance. We have a lot more now but it often means a lot less.
Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by cchance on Monday June 10, 2024 @06:43PM (#40640105)
LOL that image you painstakingly created is also forgotten not long after being given to most people, just because you know the effort that went in doesn't mean the receiving person does 99.9% of the time.

Same thing for your kid, the kid likes both stories, gives 0 shit that you used GenAI or sat up for 8 hours trying to figure out the rhyme, those things are making YOU feel better not the person receiving it.

Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by frereubu on Monday June 10, 2024 @06:50PM (#40640179)
I think it would be clear that the picture was drawn for the person - I imagine most people would explicitly say something like "I drew this for you" in the accompanying message. And I don't know what kind of kids you've been hanging around, but my daughter would definitely appreciate a story that I spent some time thinking up rather than "here's something ChatGPT came up with". I guess that assumes you're not going to lie to kids about the AI-generated being yours, but that's another issue entirely.
Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by cchance on Monday June 10, 2024 @07:05PM (#40640303)
You go into "HOW" you write a poem for your daughter? are you also explaining and rubbing in how hard you work to get her food on the table? Like wow, the amount of people here that want their "effort" calculated into the "love" cost of something is insane.

I was brought up that the thought matters, if i think to call my mom she appreciates it i don't need to make some excess effort to show her i love her or show her more love.

You read your daughter a book off your phone you got for free, is that somehow worth less than a book you went to barnes and noble and paid full price for?

Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by its_ethan on Monday June 10, 2024 @08:16PM (#40640844)
This is because there actually is a calculation that people do between "effort" and "love" (it's not some 1:1 ratio and you can't calculate it, it's real). At least for the vast, vast majority of people with functional interpersonal skills...

It's the difference between calling your mom and just saying "Hi mom, this is me thinking to call you. bye." vs calling her with a prepared thing to say/ask about that you had to take extra time to think about before calling. Effort went into that. You don't need to tell her "HOW" you came up with what you wanted to talk about, but there is a difference in how your call will be received as a result.

If you really believe that sending a text versus a hand written card will have no difference on how the message is interpreted, you should just know that you are in the minority.

Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by Nition on Monday June 10, 2024 @10:32PM (#40641674)
With my original bedtime story example, I was actually thinking about the kind of story you make up on the spot. Like the topic request comes at bedtime, and maybe the child even has feedback on how the story should go as you're making it up. The alternative of the parent quickly asking ChatGPT on their phone for a story on the selected topic just seems not as fun and meaningful.

I guess in Apple's example it looks like they're writing it as a document on MacOS, so I suppose they are writing it ahead of time.

Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by tines on Monday June 10, 2024 @06:47PM (#40640147)
> those things are making YOU feel better not the person receiving it

I don't think this is true at all. Love is proportional to cost; if it costs me nothing, then the love it represents is nothing.

When we receive something from someone, we estimate what it cost them based on what we know of them. Until recently, if someone wrote a poem just for us, our estimation of that would often be pretty high because we know approximately what it costs to write a poem.

In modern times, that cost calculation is thrown off, because we don't know whether they wrote it themselves (high cost) or generated it (low/no cost).

Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by cchance on Monday June 10, 2024 @07:03PM (#40640287)
Love is proportional to cost?!?!?!?! Holy shit thats fucking weird, it costs me 0 to love my mom, i love my mom lol, that doesn't change that fact. Broke mother that can't afford to take care of her kid doesn't not love the kid or vise versa.

If your calculating "cost" for if someone is showing nuts, i feel sad for you lol, if my wife buys or makes me something or just says "i love you" they are equivalent, I don't give a shit if she "does something for me that costs her something" she loves me she thought of me.

The thought is what matters, if you put extra worth on people struggling to do something meaning more love... thats... ya

Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by robertjpayne on Monday June 10, 2024 @08:07PM (#40640774)
He uses cost in a context of time and effort not directly financial
Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by its_ethan on Monday June 10, 2024 @08:22PM (#40640883)
I can't help but be baited into responding to this comment too lol

You are obviously willfully misinterpreting what the OP meant by "cost".

You say "the thought is what matters" - this is 100% true, and "the thought" has a "cost". It "costs" an hour of sitting down and thinking of what to write to express your feelings to someone. That's what he is saying is "proportional" to love.

It "costs" you mental space to love your mom, and that can definitely happen with $0 entering the equation.

And with respect to "extra worth on people struggling to do something meaning more love" - if you spend the time to sit down and write a poem, when that's something that you don't excel at, someone will think: "oh wow you clearly really love me if you spent the time to write a poem, I know this because I know it's not easy for you and so you must care a lot to have done so anyway". If you can't see that... thats... ya

Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by raincole on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @05:03AM (#40644066)
> You say "the thought is what matters" - this is 100% true, and "the thought" has a "cost". It "costs" an hour of sitting down and thinking of what to write to express your feelings to someone. That's what he is saying is "proportional" to love.

So if you sit down and thinking of what to write to express your love to your mom for two hours, then you love your mom twice than the person who only sit down for one hour loves his mom?

It's what "proportional" means. Words have meanings.

Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by its_ethan on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @11:48AM (#40647712)
I never said that spending two hours means you love someone twice as much as spending one hour, I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

You also may be shocked to learn this, but "proportional" doesn't mean 1:1. It can mean 1:2, 5:1, or x:x^e(2*pi). All of those are proportions. Words do have meanings, and you'll note that - while I didn't even misuse the word proportional - the quotations also indicate I'm using it more loosely than it's textbook definition. You know, like how a normal person might.

I'm getting the vibe from you and the other commentator that, to you, this is about comparing how much two people love their respective mothers. That's not at all what this is even about? You can't compare "how much" two people love a respective person/thing because love isn't quantifiable.

I'm really not sure what you're even taking issue with? The idea that more time and effort from the giver corresponds to the receiver feeling more appreciation? That is not exactly a hot take lmfao

Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by Nition on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @04:57PM (#40651376)
Consider this scenario: Your friend sends you an image of some art they produced. It looks very impressive. You ask them how long it took them to create. They say oh, only a minute or so, I made it with a MidJourney prompt.

Do you feel disappointed in that answer? If yes, then surely you see that appreciation of something can be relative to effort.

Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by tines on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @01:32AM (#40642711)
I think I see what tripped you up in my comment. I said

> if it costs me nothing, then the love it represents is nothing.

You could read this as meaning that every action has to be super costly or else the love isn't there. I admit that it's poorly phrased and it's not what I meant.

What I should have said is that if it costs you nothing, then it doesn't in itself indicate love. It costs me nothing to say "I love you" on its own, and you wouldn't believe me if I just walked up to you in the street and said that. But your mom has spent thousands of hours and liters of blood, sweat and tears caring for you, so when she says "I love you," you have all that to back those words up. It's the cost she paid before that imbues the words with value: high cost, deep love.

Hopefully that makes more sense.

Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by raincole on Monday June 10, 2024 @11:12PM (#40641873)
Love is somewhat related to cost, but "proportional" is definitely not the word you want.

If love is proportional to cost, then rapists and psychos who kill their SOs are the true lovers since the cost is 20 years of jail time to life sentence. Do you want to live by this standard?

Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by tines on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @01:21AM (#40642651)
Actually you prove my point; the psycho loves himself so much that he will risk prison to get what he wants (or keep others from having it), but he doesn't love his SO enough to pay the cost of letting her go.
Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by cromka on Monday June 10, 2024 @06:49PM (#40640173)
What a cynical take!
Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by Nition on Monday June 10, 2024 @09:52PM (#40641438)
I don't truly agree with your take here, but let's assume you are correct and creating real things in your life only benefits you and no-one else. If you create a painting or story or piece of furniture, others prefer the more professional AI or mass-produced version.

In that scenario certainly there'll be times when using the AI option will make more sense, since you usually don't have hours to spare, and you also want to make the stories that your kid likes the most, which in this scenario are the AI ones.

But even then there's still that benefit to yourself from spending time on creating things, and I'd encourage anyone to have a hobby where they get to make something just because they feel like it. Even if it's just for you. It's nice to have an outlet to express yourself.

Re:Apple Intelligence for iPhone, iPad, and Mac by rldjbpin on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @01:48PM (#40649319)
having been bombarded with forwards of "good morning" image greetings from loved ones on a daily basis, i can definitely attest to this sentiment.

ai spam, especially the custom emoji/stickers will be interesting in terms of whether they will have any reusability or will be littered like single-use plastic.