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Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by Rinzler89 on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @01:04AM (#40497485)
For over 20+ years I've been hearing people and politicians talking about "affordable housing" and in that time, the gap between housing price increases and wage increases has only gone up, along with wealth inequality, that I'm tired of hearing even more talks, as I already know where this is going: nowhere.

Housing will get more expensive and the rich will keep getting richer, as per usual, while the politicians will keep making vague empty political promises about housing affordability when the election time comes.

I'm not holding my breath this will be solved ever in my lifetime, unless war or a violent revolution resets the monopoly board.

Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by klyrs on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @02:07AM (#40497815)
Right, you can't increase wages, because that would cause inflation! Nevermind the grocers, oil cartels and landlords hiking prices year after year. That's just good business sense, hampering that would destroy prosperity!
Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by bboygravity on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @01:58AM (#40497763)
It was already solved though (in Singapore and many other places).

Affordable housing is not rocket science nor a novel or hard problem to solve. IMO the root cause is that there's a serious issue with the sustainability of the US political system (and its fiat currency) in general.

Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by mediumdeviation on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @02:49AM (#40498050)
> It was already solved though (in Singapore and many other places).

I feel like people saying this don’t understand how radical Singapore’s housing solution is. It starts with the government repossessing most of the land in the city to develop housing. I think that’s alone is a non-starter pretty much anywhere in the United States.

It’s also far from perfect - I could for example talk about how construction in Singapore is for the most part only viable because of cheap labor from surrounding country, the ticking time bomb that is the 99 year lease or the fact that prices have slowly but surely ticked up in recent years, far in excess of inflation.

Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by qsi on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @03:08AM (#40498177)
In addition I'd add that homelessness still exists in Singapore, albeit at a very low level, estimated at about 1,000 people out of a population of 6 million. ChannelNewsAsia did a feature on homelessness here a while ago:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/watch/homeless-singapore/why...

Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by fragmede on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @06:24AM (#40499220)
Shift the Overton window and propose projects to eminent-domain the shit out of everything everywhere until eminent-domaining just the empty Sears store to put up housing seems more than reasonable.
Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by Rinzler89 on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @02:17AM (#40497864)
>It was already solved though

If people can only name Singapore, Tokyo and Vienna as examples where "housing was fixed", then it's proof that it hasn't been fixed when there's the other millions of cities worldwide left.

Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by fragmede on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @06:17AM (#40499179)
it proves it's a solvable problem, so the other 10,000 or so cities (there aren't millions of them) just aren't properly motivated to solve the problem.

The first atomic bomb was hard, because it wasn't known if it was even possible. The second one was still really hard, but once the Americans proved it was possible, everyone else knew it was possible.

Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by Rinzler89 on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @07:17AM (#40499567)
>so the other 10,000 or so cities (there aren't millions of them) just aren't properly motivated to solve the problem

Civilizations, human settlements, people's homes and communities aren't fungible commodity widgets solvable and movable through copy-paste solutions like technical challenges, no matter how much HN insists every world challenge from housing to world peace, is as easily solvable as those at their tech jobs.

Just because you can 1:1 reverse engineer a bomb design and have it work the same, doesn't mean you can just take a housing policy that worked in the demographic, geographical, historical and cultural context of one country and just drop it in another country with a completely different context and background, and expect it to just work the same.

This is the tech equivalent of: "well, it was working on my machine".

Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by selectodude on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @09:05AM (#40500360)
“Building enough housing” is actually a concept that we can apply everywhere in the world. My city has a million fewer people than it did 50 years ago and inflation adjusted rents are an order of magnitude higher. It’s not because the ability to build enough housing was lost to the sands of time.
Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by Rinzler89 on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @09:41AM (#40500675)
>My city has a million fewer people than it did 50 years ago and inflation adjusted rents are an order of magnitude higher.

Can I ask which city lost 1 million people in 50 years?

Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by fragmede on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @07:45PM (#40506757)
Sure. In some company cultures, the developer throws the code over the wall and it's up to the operations team to make it work, so "well, it was working on my machine" is basically saying "go fuck yourself". There are other ways to work though, and so an alternate culture is for SREs to be engaged from the start of the project, so the developer doesn't just throw the code over the wall, and "well, it was working on my machine" is followed by a pairing session with the SWE to figure out the differences between the two as to why it's not working. Of course, modern tools aka Docker make that less of a problem these days, but as with all things, half the side of tech is culture and not the technology itself.

Back to the point though, I didn't claim it's at all easy to solve the housing crisis everywhere in the world, but that there are cities without a housing crisis. However they solved it won't be directly applicable to cities on a different continent in a difference country with a totally different culture, zoning laws, building codes, and entrenched interests.

But it proves it's possible. "All" that has to happen is the right person with sufficient political capital to get it to happen. Such a leader or team doesn't exist in most places, unfortunately, but, again, the point is if there was such an individual, they're not trying to do the impossible, since it's been proven it's possible.

Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by mistermann on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @02:39AM (#40497986)
Solving housing affordability may first require solving culture, and Singapore is a major historical outlier in that regard because of one Human: Lee Kuan Yew

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Kuan_Yew

Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by brynb on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @02:23AM (#40497905)
while important, the fiat currency is a second-order issue, imho. the root is self-serving corruption facilitated by an intricate apparatus based on bureaucratic capture. to even appear as a choice on the ballot, one must either be part and parcel of this widespread corruption, or one must take the system by surprise with vast amounts of money and bluster (trump trump something something, fat lot of good that did, though). one of the biggest issues we have is that so much “shadow money” is allowed to influence politics. if the government was originally supposed to be a “check and balance” against accumulation of corporate power against regular people, phenomena like Citizens United et al have guaranteed the undoing of that guardianship. it is a society of grift now, through and through. and of course, being adaptive creatures, we learn from example, and we learn from our enemies, so anyone who once played the “good guy” role is stooping as low as his opponent now. surveying the political landscape, it’s often hard to find anyone spending more time trying to solve problems as opposed to maximizing instagram likes and chances for reelection

NB: there’s that whole discourse about “how are you all multi-millionaires when the pay for senator/representative is at most a few hundred thousand a year?”

Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by hgomersall on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @08:18AM (#40499963)
The only problem with the fiat currency is the total failure to use it effectively due to misguided fears about "debt".
Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by zeroCalories on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @01:30AM (#40497600)
You should migrate to somewhere that does value affordable housing.
Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by Rinzler89 on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @01:31AM (#40497610)
Where would that be that's nice to live, safe, good infrastructure, good jobs AND by some miracle still allows you to buy affordable housing?

Plus, if you move to a low-CoL area with a high-CoL job then you're not really solving housing, you're just moving your problem elsewhere onto other people making housing unaffordable for them. How many former cheap places to live have been gentrified into oblivion in a short amount of time?

The goal is to make housing affordable AND help preserve local communities and culture(even though that might be contradictory to a degree), not to keep gentrifying and uprooting them in a musical chairs style game and then wonder why communities are dying, family units are dying, birth rates plummet, family support networks are dying, mental illnesses are up, loneliness is up, etc.

Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by baq on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @02:23AM (#40497907)
You seem to assume a free market for housing, that would be at least partially incorrect. The free market is a cause of long term (timeframe of decades) housing unaffordabilty because the haves treat housing as investment while the have-nots live under bridges or in cars which puts them in an unemployment/debt spiral.

The free market could work if housing was a depreciating asset like cars. Too many people in the west would be pissed off if that happened, though. It will come to some countries with collapsing demographics and that won’t be a pretty sight.

Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by Rinzler89 on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @03:08AM (#40498172)
>It will come to some countries with collapsing demographics and that won’t be a pretty sight.

Except that's not how it happens. Demographics have been collapsing in many EU countries for a while now and prices have been going nowhere but up at rates beyond wage growth.

Internal migration from rural to urban, and external migration from war torn and impoverished nations also to urban centers, keep pushing demand up regardless of local reproduction numbers.

Sure, you can now buy cheap properties in some empty towns in the south of Italy for example, but to what end if there's no jobs there?

Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by baq on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @05:12AM (#40498884)
At some point we run out of people in rural areas to migrate to urban and 30-50 more years later we get Detroit, maybe, except everywhere at once.

Watching South Korea very closely... for the next 20 years.

Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by Rinzler89 on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @05:49AM (#40499052)
>At some point we run out of people in rural areas to migrate to urban

But you won't run out of external migrants due to wars, climate change and poverty who want to leave their countries and move to the western developed ones.

Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by fragmede on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @06:56AM (#40499406)
Given the numerous government regulations, as well as regulatory capture and NIMBYism, housing is not a particularly free market. Zoning and building codes (only some of which are important for not making death traps) as well as low income units lead to prohibited or high costs of construction.
Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by zeroCalories on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @09:38AM (#40500649)
Gentrification is based. Unless you want to stop people immigrating you'll never "preserve the character of your neighborhood" while keeping prices down. The only solution is to build more housing.
Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by barfbagginus on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @01:09AM (#40497504)
Work to bring about Revolution, don't just hope for it.
Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by amanaplanacanal on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @07:42AM (#40499715)
The problem with revolution is that when it comes, you won’t be in charge. The person who is willing to be the most violent and ruthless will be.
Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by Rinzler89 on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @08:14AM (#40499921)
Exactly this. It's why the former communist countries had nothing to do with Karl Marx's communism and why people say "real communism has never been tried".

Those "communists" who came to power there didn't distribute the wealth to the people, but came to power to pocket it themselves by replacing the monarchies who had all the wealth and power previously to them, but still kept the folk enslaved at gunpoint. You basically switched one undemocratic oppressive regime with another and the average folk kept getting the short stick both times.

So be careful when you wish for major revolutions. Doesn't necessarily mean that with new management, things will always turn out better for you this time.

Re:The Nonprofit Industrial Complex and the Corruption of th... by barfbagginus on Friday May 31, 2024 @07:49PM (#40541450)
I endorse queer automated Revolution.

The beauty of this is that we can do terror and violence to the enemy by just existing peacefully, as queer people. The enemy is literally just that cowardly, we could say "boo, I exist" at them, and we don't have to kill anyone.

Automating things, making those automations queer inclusive, and maintaining control of the things that we automated, by making them open source, is how we ram that victory home.

Tada! Queer automated open source communism for the win. Now you either want to work for the revolution, are terrified of it like bonkers because I said queer as if I'm proud of it, or you have critical ideas about how to improve it! And that's exactly how a revolution should be!

Viva! We can be gay! We can do crimes! We can automate the things! And we can win!