How did you get a Bolt for only $8k? What rebates are offered by whom on used cars?! When did they start doing that?

And as always, the number one reason to buy a Tesla is "best charging infra available". That's it. You still can't drive a non-Tesla across the country reliably. The other charging networks are in a terrible state of disrepair (far worse than Teslas!) and have significantly fewer locations which makes long distance travel in an EV impractical.

Americans don't need every car they own to be able to drive across the country, but they certainly want to. It's hard to get that out of people's heads.

I'm in California. There's a $4k rebate from PG&E (electric utility) and a $4k rebate from the federal government if you buy a used electric car. It's income dependent too. The car itself cost $16k including taxes and registration fees. So, $8k after everything.

I can confirm the charging aspect. I've had a leaf since 2018 and we have a chademo fast charger, which only 1/10 stations have. It can be all but impossible to find a working, not in use chademo charger. I love, love the car, but can't recommend a leaf to anyone because of this problem. The only place chademo is even supported at this point is Japan.

Amazing, this flew under the radar for me

That supercharger dominance is much less so in Europe. I'd even say, completely nonexistent. Therefore, much more even competition. And Tesla's competition at similar prices is just getting started - to me it seems that the technological gap (if there ever was such a thing) has been completely levelled, and the cars from all other factories are iterating faster and more efficiently. Turns out that if the big car companies really go for it, their ability to build good EVs isn't systematically worse than Tesla's. Not that any sane person ever really thought that, other than hype believers.

I have an EV and I wish I could use Superchargers but my car is buggy and won't charge with them.

In Europe, Tesla uses the CCS2 standard (like everyone else except the Leaf), and Tesla's network is just one of many. It doesn't have a significant advantage. European Teslas even suggest 3rd party chargers in the built-in nav.

In some places it may even be better to buy an 800V EV, and use the faster Ionity and Fastned networks.

In America, 100 years is a long time. In Europe, 100 miles is a long distance. Americans will very often take 500-mile drives, at least often enough to make it worth buying a car that can support it.

They're not even status symbols anymore. I think it's quite common knowledge now that they're poor quality cars made with very little care.

Teslas, maybe. How about Nissans and especially Volvos?

Model 3 and Y are best in class cars/EVs from a price, performance and feature perspective. Comparing to a used Chevy Bolt isn't going to be very meaningful against any new car.

What does all that even mean? My Bolt drives just fine. What features are you talking about?

There's an efficiency rating for EVs, basically best bang for buck per kWh. Tesla has ranked in the top consistently, thus saving you some more money on electric bill.

When I was shopping around for EVs at the time the Bolt was actually more efficient miles/kwh than a Tesla. Factoring that into the total cost of ownership further widened the price between them.

It means you are comparing apples to oranges. You wouldn't comparing a chevy spark to a mid range lexus they are optimized for different markets.

Cars are some of the most feature segmented products available. I don't believe that you have no understanding of the different features of cars outside of ability to drive.

More people simply don't care at all.

They're like uber expensive phones, whatever you buy will be a piece of shit in 10 years anyways, why would you spend 50k on a piece of shit when you can buy another one for 5k

I recently rented a modern car and god damn besides being able to control the back windows from the front seat it was all gimmick tier gadgets

Problem is based on the cars that sell most people definitely care.

The #2 most sold car in europe is a shit box called Dacia Sandero, it's a cheap renault built in Romania using renault tech from 10 years ago and barely able to break 0-60 in like 15 seconds

But it sells new from 11k euros...

I'm not up to speed on it, but I'll do my own research since I'm sure you're right.

Double negative makes you sound like a bot.

K

See you like me just want to get from point A to point B.

> What features are you talking about?

Status.

It depends on whether you need these features, and this performance.

An M2 MBP may have best in class features and performance, but an RPi 3 may be sufficient for a particular computing task, even if it's way less advanced.

Why are people "always" comparing used things to new things -- of different feature and performance tiers, no less -- as if they're somehow NOT comparing apples to oranges?

"I bought a gently-used 29er for $300. Why are people paying $8k for cars?"

This is strange to hear. Model 3s are the cheapest used electric cars in my area, and with FSD included they look very tempting.

The only disadvantage I see compared to other electrics is the bad turning radius.

I think it's because everybody is going hybrid now. Since hybrids have smaller batteries, they have the same weight, with a way better range.

Also, in France, i think everybody who at the same time want, can afford and have a place to charge an EV have one.

IMHO the reason for buying a Tesla, Beyond its utility, is to have a cultural piece. It’s the first electric car that was just about right.

You own piece of history and make a statement. These days though, that statement may mot be perceived as very positive if you’re not into chemtrails or something.

It seems like if culture is important to the brand, having the CEO be one of the most vocal culture warriors in the world is an extremely bad idea.

Superchargers?

I don't own a Tesla, but that would be my choice if not for Musk's strange antics lately. As an apartment dweller who frequently goes on road trips, the ability to fast-charge on the road is important. I've rented EVs in the past and the third-party charger networks are TERRIBLE, even when they're available and working (which they often aren't).

My next car will probably be a plug-in hybrid for that reason. As much as I love EVs, the chargers are just... really, really bad. Unless you have a L2 at home or work (I have neither), that becomes a problem.

Inside EV's is usually fairly Tesla-critical, and their review says that the refreshed 2024 Model 3 is best in class: https://insideevs.com/reviews/719484/tesla-model3-long-range...

Obviously not everybody agrees, but if enough people think Tesla is the best they'll still sell well.

My Model 3 got totaled in a crash last year. I did debate whether I should give Elon Musk more money, so I looked at what the competition was offering.

Competing cars were often more expensive for worse specs, did not have access to Superchargers and made decisions that were less efficient (for example, most did not have heat pumps and had weak regenerative braking so as not to be too “weird” for gas car users).

So I bought another Tesla.

Had the exact same experience. One of the car dealerships told me that I still have to get a 6 month "service" where they move around battery packs (why?). And secondly, I remembered how I hated talking to car salesmen.

I assume the tech is better in the tesla. Despite its issues, isn't autopilot better than the adas systems of similarly priced used/new cars?

Not really. TSLA had a first to market edge, but they shit the bed over the past 4-5 years and are losing market share to the dinosaurs.

Doesn't help build quality has taken a nose dive. Definitely doesn't help that the CEO is unhinged.

I _almost_ bought into the hype back in 2020-2021, but backed out of my purchase due to poor build quality reports.

> Is there really any reason to buy a Tesla if you want an EV other than as a status symbol?

In most head-to-head comparisons between like models: Goes farther. Goes much faster. Holds more stuff. Seats more people. Charges at more spots. Vastly better charging experience ("plug in and walk away"). Vastly better infotainment system. Vastly better autopilot experience vs. mere "cruise control and lane keeping". New car prices are often cheaper, even.

Your Bolt may be a very useful vehicle but you're not going to road trip around the mountain west in it (though to be fair the linked article is about Europe). It'd be hard pressed just to take you skiing.

People who live in Tahoe would love to have a word with you about how terrible the typical Tesla driver is during ski season, but ok. For snow driving, you're going to want something more practical, and snow tires.

You’re right, kind of. I got snow tires for my model Y and it has been great for ski trips or even down the hill during the rare PNW snow.

A Tesla with summer (maybe even all season) tires, its monstrous torque, and regenerative braking, is definitely not a good winter car for the uninitiated.

Stop it, it takes me into the cascades regularly. An AWD EV with 3MPSF tires is the best snow vehicle I've ever driven. Why do people do this? That's just trivially falsifiable.

The force (weight of a car in this case) and the material of the contact surfaces are the biggest (theoretically the only) factors affecting the friction. But the members of the US Summer Tire Club don’t get that.

Mmm...BYD and Geely are going to come as a shock when they arrive to your neck of the woods. :)

At least the comparison ive seen between the Model 3 and equivalent BYD was still very favorable to the Model 3. Beep boop.

I don't think there's an offering from either vendor that wins any one of the criteria above, actually? Is there a specific model you're thinking of that e.g. beats the Model Y on more than one (or two-if-you-grant-a-subjective-call, maybe).

In the US, the obvious answer is charging network.

I would also say that the Chevy Bolt is solidly smaller than the average vehicle that most Americans buy, especially those that buy new cars.

Car manufacturers don’t really care what used buyers like you want. They don’t make money from a used sale.

I don't understand the value of the charging network. Who drives 400 miles in a day? It's much more efficient to either have access to a gasoline car when that's necessary or just rent one for $50 a day.

Renting a car for $50 a day plus gas does not make sense when you can charge off-peak (at least in my area) for about $7.

I took my cybertruck on a beautiful road trip through eastern Washington just this past week. I needed nearly all of its advertised 320 mile range because charger coverage is sparse. Sure I may only make trips like that a few times a year but I’m sure glad for the range when I do. After owning EVs for a few years, I find it obnoxious to have to do constant trips to a gas station and expensive maintenance.

> Car manufacturers don’t really care what used buyers like you want. They don’t make money from a used sale.

That's not true. Someone buying a new cars pays attention to resale value, so car manufacturers want the resale value to be as high as possible to encourage someone to buy a new one.