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Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by IshKebab on Wednesday May 15, 2024 @05:12PM (#40372418)
The RP2040 isn't a very compelling microcontroller though. The only interesting thing about it is the programmable peripherals, but we've seen that before, e.g. from XMOS and in practice the protocols & peripherals you're going to use 99.9% of the time are completely standard - I2C, SPI, I2S, UART, counters/PWM, etc. For the rare case you need something custom and high speed there are really cheap FPGAs now.

The ESP32 supports all of those protocols and Wifi and Bluetooth, and it has low power sleep modes. And there are RISC-V versions which is quite nice from a a warm fuzzy point of view.

I think RPi still has a place for hobby electronics projects where you want GPIO. I don't think people are going to use it as a standard computer (desktop / media server / etc) though.

Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by 05 on Wednesday May 15, 2024 @06:11PM (#40373033)
> I think RPi still has a place for hobby electronics projects where you want GPIO.

But any sane design would offload the IO to a more capable MCU that has more than a single SPI channel, among other weird limitations.. Sure, hobbyists often do weird things, but the niche for RPi is pretty much 'basically a computer, but you could theoretically blink an LED' - the actual experience of using those peripherals is much worse that what you'd have in Arduino or Platformio. Try attaching an interrupt handler to a GPIO pin on Linux, now you need to write a kernel module :)

Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by throwup238 on Wednesday May 15, 2024 @07:26PM (#40373566)
RPi's niche is really as an SBC supported by mainline Linux and a giant community. That's why it had supply shortages - that's a huge value add to the electronics industry and the money was too good to resist pivoting to commercial users over education and hobbyists. Grabbing an Altium/KiCad/etc footprint and slapping a compute module on a board while prototyping with a Pi is still the fastest way to go to market with a well supported Linux CPU. All the other manufacturers have really really shitty BSPs in comparison, even if you're just offloading everything realtime to an MCU.

ESP32/ESPHome may have taken over the lower end with its easy config but there's still no real Pi competitor. A decade after the first RPi release, I still dread using any other platform when I have to design a board that requires more compute than an ESP32.

Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by kogepathic on Thursday May 16, 2024 @01:14AM (#40375406)
> All the other manufacturers have really really shitty BSPs in comparison, even if you're just offloading everything realtime to an MCU.

The irony here is that other SOC/SBC makers are focused more on throwing a barely stable design onto AliExpress for $20 than investing in good upstream support that would allow them to charge a premium.

Raspberry Pi wasn't always able to charge a premium, that benefit came from years of investment into software and community. I have not yet seen another SOC vendor or board partner realize this in any significant way.

Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by lazide on Thursday May 16, 2024 @11:46AM (#40379766)
How would they get traction when they have Raspberry Pi right there next to them?

Besides the price, anyway.

Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by youainti on Thursday May 16, 2024 @03:11PM (#40381970)
Spending money on linux devs who are available to help work through problems and keep systems up to date.
Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by lazide on Thursday May 16, 2024 @03:52PM (#40382416)
And how would that work compared to the army of free ones on the Raspberry Pi side?
Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by alright2565 on Thursday May 16, 2024 @03:22PM (#40382093)
You're not looking in the right places. I've had great experiences with EmbeddedTS, and their kernel seems to be close to upstream.
Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by kogepathic on Thursday May 16, 2024 @11:57PM (#40386244)
> The TS-7250-V3 is an industrial grade SBC based on the NXP i.MX 6UL with a 696MHz Arm® Cortex®-A7 core and 512 MB or 1 GB DDR3 RAM

This is their latest "High performance industrial grade embedded computer" that I can see on their website

Of course you'll have good upstream support for something as old as the i.MX6UL, it's been out for 8 years (7 years at the time they released the TS-7250-V3).

No wonder Raspberry Pi has upended the market, when a single core Cortex-A7 is the competition.

Even an Allwinner chip that has a terrible BSP at release has good upstream support 7 years later.

Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by mfuzzey on Thursday May 16, 2024 @03:22PM (#40382088)
> All the other manufacturers have really really shitty BSPs in comparison,

I disagree. The NXP (i.MX line) and the TI (am62x) and the STM32 MP1/2 all have good mainline support.

What you say is true of most of the Chineese chips and of mobile chips but if you go with mainstream suppliers targeting the industrial / automative markets these days mainline Linux support is good at the SoC level. At the SoM level some are better than others but it's not that hard to pull the approriate DTS into your mainline kernel build even if it isn't already upstream.

RPi is probably better for hobbyists but that's not due to the mainline status but a community more in tune with hobbyists than the more industrial products.

I've built professional embedded Linux systems based in i.MX5/6/8 and STM32MP1 with mainline based BSP rather than vendor stuff but have only ever used the RPi for one off tools.

Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by lmm on Thursday May 16, 2024 @01:03AM (#40375350)
> the niche for RPi is pretty much 'basically a computer, but you could theoretically blink an LED'

I honestly think that's where most of the demand is. It's an aspirational product, like a jacket you could theoretically go up a mountain in or a watch that works underwater or whatever.

Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by lazide on Thursday May 16, 2024 @11:48AM (#40379790)
90% of the demand? Probably.

That said, if you’re rolling a DIY remotely manageable industrial automation project? It’s the obvious choice.

Hard to beat being able to apt-get openssh, python, etc. etc. and the ecosystem of pluggable hats for just this purpose.

Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by rerdavies on Thursday May 16, 2024 @02:07AM (#40375661)
Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by bdemirkir on Thursday May 16, 2024 @04:18PM (#40382650)
That's not an interrupt but an event sent from kernel's gpio subsystem. It may skip some events and there's not much guarantee on the delay between the interrupt itself and event userspace gets.
Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by actionfromafar on Wednesday May 15, 2024 @06:01PM (#40372947)
XMOS was around for a long time, but for whatever reason I never saw it used much. There are so many RP2040 projects floating around on github now, showcasing the programmable IO ports. That's very helpful if you want to tinker with something yourself.
Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by snvzz on Wednesday May 15, 2024 @08:26PM (#40373961)
They made it from scratch recently and chose ARM over RISC-V.

This is testament on how out of touch they are.

Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by rpbiwer2 on Wednesday May 15, 2024 @08:40PM (#40374043)
I'm out of touch. What would you use instead of ARM?
Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by IshKebab on Thursday May 16, 2024 @09:36AM (#40378293)
RISC-V. But really ARM is a totally legit choice at the moment, not out of touch at all, and I say that working for a RISC-V company.

The entire ARM ecosystem is far more mature than RISC-V, plus the main RPis are ARM so they have experience with it and probably access to ARM people.

The main reasons to use RISC-V currently are cost and customisability. There are also some quite high quality open source RISC-V cores you can use off the shelf.

Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by mfuzzey on Thursday May 16, 2024 @03:35PM (#40382252)
RISC-V is only really directly helpful for those building their own silicon (sure "anyone" can implement a RISV-V core in a FPGA but that won't give you the performance of an ASIC).

If you just want to buy a chip and put it on your own board you don't really care that much about the ISA as long as the toolchain, bootloader, kernel support is there and stable (which is pretty much the case with RISC-V now).

But if you're desiging your own silicon the ability to make or modify an existing open source RISC-V implementation can give you the flexibility that currenlty only the very largest players in the ARM ecosystem that have architecture licenses have (I think that's pretty much limited to Apple, Qualcomm, Samsung).

I expect the smaller but important players like NXP, ST, TI will be bringing out RISC-V chips taking advantage of this.

ARM have also been talking about making their fees dependant on the price of the final product so that could also push people to RISC-V, not just to pay less but also to not have to jump through the hoops that would be required to provide all the information to do that.

Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by nsteel on Thursday May 16, 2024 @04:08AM (#40376177)
I think the next revision is going to be more interesting. Remember, this was their first go at a product in this space.
Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by margalabargala on Thursday May 16, 2024 @01:44PM (#40381129)
The RP2040 doesn't itself have wifi, no, but the Pi Pico does have a version that additionally has a wifi chip

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/20174

Re:Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO by IshKebab on Friday May 17, 2024 @04:01AM (#40387536)
Sure but if you're using a separate WiFi chip you can use any microcontroller. And it still consumes too much power in sleep mode.