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Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by pjc50 on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @06:47AM (#40209503)
All this technology has the effect of pushing up the cost of vehicles, often for questionable minor safety improvements. Is there a good analysis of why the road safety trend has gone the wrong way in the US lately?
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by gumby on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @07:52AM (#40209990)
> All this technology has the effect of pushing up the cost of vehicles, often for questionable minor safety improvements.

DoT (and other departments) are required to take the cost of rules into account when writing them. So for example if the cost of putting in a safety rail on a curve exceeds the cost of the lives estimated to be saved at that curve over the lifetime of the rail, it won't be installed.

Different departments used to, and AFAIK still do (though I don't track this), value the price of a life differently. And it's not just the cost of the life; it's the cost of the cars damaged in a rear-end collision.

Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by lm28469 on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @07:11AM (#40209668)
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/27/upshot/road-deaths-pedest...

I can't link the graph directly because it doesn't display the text, ctrl-f "Change in U.S. road deaths since 1994" to see it

Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by acdha on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @07:24AM (#40209785)
I’d also add https://www.ghsa.org/resources/news-releases/pedestrians-pre...

> A combination of factors creates this deadly situation for people walking on U.S. roadways. A steep drop in traffic enforcement across the country since 2020 has enabled dangerous driving behaviors – including speeding and driving impaired – to flourish. At the same time, roads are largely designed to prioritize fast-moving vehicle traffic instead of slower speeds that are safer for people walking. Many parts of the country lack infrastructure – such as sidewalks, crosswalks and lighting – that help protect people on foot. The U.S. vehicle fleet is increasingly dominated by larger, heavier vehicles that are more likely to injure or kill people walking.

I think the pause on enforcement a lot of police departments did after the George Floyd protests is a contributing factor to that first point: it’s not just that the worst drivers realized that they could do whatever they want after buying some fake plates on Facebook but that other drivers start feeling like suckers for still following the rules. I wouldn’t say the drivers here were ever great but they used to at least stop for the red light in front of the neighborhood elementary school.

Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by lesuorac on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @05:22PM (#40216534)
> I think the pause on enforcement a lot of police departments did after the George Floyd protests is a contributing factor to that first point

Which is always a silly thing to read. George Floyd wasn't arrested because he flying 60 mph through red lights. It was over an alleged crime with maximum damages of $20; it's not even comparable to the violations being let slide.

Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by acdha on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @07:00PM (#40217518)
It’s really frustrating to see those conflated. The fake plate guys are effectively going around with a big sign indicating premeditated intent to break safety laws. Floyd may or may not have even used a counterfeit bill but even in the case where he knowingly did, it wouldn’t have harmed anyone.
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by Sohcahtoa82 on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @06:35PM (#40217264)
The protests merely wanted police accountability, and police didn't like that and started just refusing to do their job.
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by Amezarak on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @08:20AM (#40210233)
Cell phones. I look around me and at least half of the drivers I see are texting/scrolling, watching videos, or posting Snapchat stories.
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by acdha on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @08:32AM (#40210336)
This is true but it can’t be more than part of the explanation: pretty much everywhere else has phones but has seen declining fatality rates.
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by BadHumans on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @08:46AM (#40210443)
The US has heavier cars to skirt around regulations and no public transit infrastructure.
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by acdha on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @08:53AM (#40210511)
Yes, and worse pedestrian infrastructure, very limited law enforcement, and lax driver licensing. There isn’t a single fix which is going to make our roads as safe as, say, Germany but progress in any area will help.
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by willcipriano on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @07:07AM (#40209645)
This is protectionism for the voting block in Detroit. You'll see this sort of thing every 4 years.

I'm guessing patents and the like have already decided who the winner of this rule is and it probably isn't automobile buyers in the US.

Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by acdha on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @07:14AM (#40209698)
It’s matching European standards after years of American roads becoming deadlier while the rest of the world is getting safer. I wouldn’t read anything more into it than “we’d like fewer dead people on our roads”.
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by pjc50 on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @07:39AM (#40209883)
Wait, which directive mandates auto-braking?
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by acdha on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @07:46AM (#40209935)
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by drawkward on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @08:55AM (#40210521)
Even if true, who cares, if it means fewer preventable fatalities?
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by willcipriano on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @10:27AM (#40211276)
"If we can save one life, it's worth it" is part of the reason everything is so expensive in the US. People forget that poverty is also deadly and don't factor that into the calculation.
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by drawkward on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @12:36PM (#40212963)
I'd argue that profit margins are more to blame here.
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by willcipriano on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @02:43PM (#40214600)
Then you'd be against giving gifts to Detroit to keep those high.
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by Veserv on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @05:21PM (#40216509)
The article says it will save a estimated 362 lives per year at a cost of 82$ per car or 354 M$/yr. The actuarial value of a human life is usually around 5 M$, so that is a societal ROI of 5 if we only count fatalitys.
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by willcipriano on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @07:12PM (#40217604)
Your model assumes a even distribution of funds across society.
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by drawkward on Wednesday May 01, 2024 @02:43PM (#40227482)
you don't have a better assumption.
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by SkyPuncher on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @08:40AM (#40210394)
The cost here is pretty trivial from my understanding. It’s essentially just a vision system that can send a brake command. Aka a camera behind the mirror and a microprocessor.

Much of the other components are already present on modern vehicles.

Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by Germanion on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @09:01AM (#40210566)
This requires a automotive grade camera with connection to the can Bus.

This might not be expensive per se but is still a few hundred bucks.

For a small car this can easily be a few percent extra.

Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by WarOnPrivacy on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @09:00AM (#40210558)
> The cost here is pretty trivial from my understanding.

The cost to implement it or the cost to make it utterly bulletproof?

Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by Spartan-S63 on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @12:07PM (#40212603)
I think there's one of two ways to make roadways safer:

1. Add these safety feature mandates that increase the price of vehicles 2. Move towards banning larger and larger vehicles and create limits on height and clearance for non-commercial vehicles.

The latter doesn't seem politically popular, so the former is the only choice.

Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by marssaxman on Wednesday May 01, 2024 @12:28PM (#40225509)
There's another way, which is far more cost-effective and particularly well suited to government action: build more public transportation.
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by spankalee on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @05:09PM (#40216383)
Pushing up the cost of cars is good. They're damaging to the environment, people, and our infrastructure. The minimum we can be doing right now is to lower the safety risk and emissions of them.
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by nomel on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @05:53PM (#40216865)
Where I am, my car commute is 30 minutes. If I moved closer, shaving it to 10 minutes, my housing costs double. If I get down to 5, housing costs are about 4x.

If I use public transport now, the travel time is 2 hours. To keep my public transport to 30 minutes, I have to ~2x my housing costs.

I think, realistically, people will just end up commuting further, to offset the cost, since that is the best financial, and time, choice.

Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by spankalee on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @07:01PM (#40217528)
We should also build more housing!
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by nomel on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @08:57PM (#40218353)
That's another significant problem. Any dense housing built near the city is, necessarily, corporate built, due to initial costs. The ability to own these units is disappearing [1], with much more profit being found by renting. This means that moving near a city is, almost always, a 100% loss, where you burn your housing cost every month, rather than building equity with something you can own some commute away. This adds significantly more cost to the short commute, if you plan on living in the same place for a while.

[1] https://www.ppic.org/blog/multi-unit-housing-is-becoming-mor...

Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by pjc50 on Wednesday May 01, 2024 @04:14AM (#40220774)
> where you burn your housing cost every month

As opposed to travel cost?

(yes, it's a really stupid situation that renting a house is far more expensive than renting some money for thirty years)

Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by nomel on Wednesday May 01, 2024 @02:03PM (#40226906)
My cheap gas car gets 40mpg on the freeway. With our roughly $5.30/gallon cost here, a 40 mile one-way commute is around $300/month. That's < 1/10th the housing cost for living near work.

If free electric charging is available where you work, you can save even more by buying a low range, used, electric that nobody wants. I picked one up for $8k. The savings will pay it off in a few more years.

Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by grobbyy on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @05:28PM (#40216580)
No. It's not. Pushing down car ownership might be good, but not based on wealth. Priority should go to elderly, people with disabilities, people with kids, etc.

Even so, the goal shouldn't be fewer cars but less miles driven.

The kind of antagonistic approach you prescribe rarely leads to good policy.

Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by spankalee on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @07:04PM (#40217547)
Cars are massively subsidized, and requiring that they be safer reduces some of their externalities a bit, raising their cost and lowering that subsidy. That's a good thing.
Re:U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicl... by lamontcg on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @11:57PM (#40219355)
The flip side is that its a tax on poorer people who need a vehicle to work.

If we had walkable cities with good public transportation and people had actual options it'd be different.

There's an intersection of anti-car and social justice concerns where you have to ask where the financial burden is hitting.