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Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by sidewndr46 on Saturday April 13, 2024 @08:27AM (#40022705)
Reading the article, it turns out the one twin who is "more autistic" had a hole in his heart that surgery had to correct. So I suspect the actual issue here is something simpler like a difference in brain development because of the difference in the amount of blood flow.
Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by twobitshifter on Saturday April 13, 2024 @09:48AM (#40023122)
That’s possible but he did get crazy antibiotics as well.

FTA: “The infection was from drug-resistant staph bacteria. So John went back to the hospital and spent a month on powerful antibiotics pumped directly into a vein near his heart.”

Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by scottlamb on Saturday April 13, 2024 @08:57PM (#40027737)
...or just being in the hospital environment for a month. The older theory they mentioned here:

> "The earliest twin studies really helped to debunk this theory that autism was caused by parenting," Morris says. Under this theory, moms took the brunt of the blame, supposedly for being "cold and distant and detached from their child."

...might not be entirely wrong. They've since shown genetics is a factor, and I'll ignore the institutionalized misogyny part, but being in a hospital for a month probably did mean having much less parent/care-giver interaction/touch during a critical period, and who knows how much of an effect that could have.

Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by lazyasciiart on Sunday April 14, 2024 @03:05AM (#40029253)
This has been studied a lot in child welfare and is not currently believed, afaik. The diagnosis of reactive attachment disorder is acknowledged to have many overlapping symptoms with autism, but expressly differentiated as a condition.
Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by jrsdav on Sunday April 14, 2024 @08:57AM (#40030767)
> Under this theory, moms took the brunt of the blame, supposedly for being "cold and distant and detached from their child."

Before the heredity nature of autism was accepted, this was the school of thought (“refrigerator mothers”). But in truth, it’s neurodivergent parents having neurodivergent children, and society punishing the parents (namely mothers) for their inability at providing the “expected” nurturing conditions.

Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by cyanydeez on Sunday April 14, 2024 @10:52AM (#40031490)
Tied back, atypical behavior.may create neurodivergent conditions, but one would expect children of aurististics to seek less overall care which doesnt support the hypitheses that antibiotics are causing aitism as this thrwad started
Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by crisply5706 on Saturday April 13, 2024 @11:15AM (#40023639)
My theory is that this causation is flipped. Something about whatever the precursor to autism is causes the body to experience more physical failures or malformed structures.

Something like whatever mechanisms decode structure from the genome are faulty and produce slightly wrong structures throughout the brain and body.

Anecdotally, I see a higher rate of general illness and physical birth defects in autistic people.

Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by empressplay on Saturday April 13, 2024 @11:52AM (#40023931)
There appears to be some correlation between Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome and autism

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7711487/

It makes a certain amount of sense that a collagen / connective tissue disorder is going to have wide-ranging effects, including the nervous system

Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by ejstronge on Saturday April 13, 2024 @09:23PM (#40027872)
Another way to think of this is that 'autism' is a broad series of disorders where individuals do not follow the social-relational cues we expect. There are many ways to violate unspoken social expectations, so there should be many ways to be autistic.

In this setting, it's not unreasonable that any genetic syndrome would be more associated with autism; indeed, it's more interesting to find lesions that have a lower proportion of autistic carriers compared to the general population.

Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by crisply5706 on Sunday April 14, 2024 @08:49PM (#40035928)
Yeah, I suspect it's quite likely that autism is correlated with/caused by genetic disorders in general, rather than being its own thing that just happens to be comorbid with a suspicious number of other disorders.

There's too many correlations that aren't common enough, I really think we've got the causality backwards. But then again I don't know anything

Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by b800h on Sunday April 14, 2024 @01:18PM (#40032640)
Wow, I'm hypermobile and my sons have what appears to be mild autism (see my other comment above). Yet more to unpick!
Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by notamy on Sunday April 14, 2024 @08:42AM (#40030704)
There’s a correlation between autism and mitochondrial dysfunction:

https://www.nature.com/articles/mp2010136

> Most ASD/MD cases (79%) were not associated with genetic abnormalities, raising the possibility of secondary mitochondrial dysfunction. Treatment studies for ASD/MD were limited, although improvements were noted in some studies with carnitine, co-enzyme Q10 and B-vitamins. Many studies suffered from limitations, including small sample sizes, referral or publication biases, and variability in protocols for selecting children for MD workup, collecting mitochondrial biomarkers and defining MD. Overall, this evidence supports the notion that mitochondrial dysfunction is associated with ASD. Additional studies are needed to further define the role of mitochondrial dysfunction in ASD.

Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by b800h on Sunday April 14, 2024 @01:17PM (#40032630)
FWIW, I have identical twin sons who probably have mild autism. One had an umbilical hernia like the lad in the story. They both had a couple of other small developmental anomalies. But they were both slightly premature (like most twins) and shared a womb. So what's the driver here? One of the above, or possibly the hormones which they were (incorrectly) given to promote lung function? There's a lot to unpick.
Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by eutropia on Saturday April 13, 2024 @09:28AM (#40023007)
Isn’t it common to be given a lot of antibiotics when you get a surgery?
Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by Retric on Saturday April 13, 2024 @10:18AM (#40023308)
I had a fairly significant surgery at a premiere US hospital including several days of recovery in the hospital and didn’t get any antibiotics after the fact. They could have injected me with something during the actual surgery, but it didn’t show up on the bill.

I think this may be specific to Heart surgery.

Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by amanaplanacanal on Sunday April 14, 2024 @12:53PM (#40032485)
I was given prophylactic antibiotics for prostate surgery. It might depend on the surgeon.
Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by idontknowifican on Saturday April 13, 2024 @09:45AM (#40023102)
a lot and a heart artery drip for 30 days are orders of magnitude different in quantity
Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by inglor_cz on Saturday April 13, 2024 @09:34AM (#40023035)
A friend underwent operation of his aorta. Post-surgery inflammation is an absolutely common complication and they dumped a lot of antibiotics into him precisely to reduce the risk. (If I understand correctly, it wouldn't be probably fatal, but very, very unpleasant.)
Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by Rinzler89 on Saturday April 13, 2024 @09:33AM (#40023027)
It is.
Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by boringg on Saturday April 13, 2024 @09:39AM (#40023058)
I think blood flow to the brain >> impacts of antibiotics is the likely order of magnitude of impact - though tough to tell.
Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by jejeyyy77 on Saturday April 13, 2024 @10:00AM (#40023197)
correlation causation
Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by BrandoElFollito on Saturday April 13, 2024 @03:37PM (#40025416)
Whenever I had (minor) surgery in France, I was given antibiotics "as a shield". I obviously do not know if this helped or not.

Now, French doctors were always very quick to prescribe antibiotics (as a kid I had plenty of them) and it took quite a lot of effort to change their(and parent's) mind. My children got much less, though they were almost never checked for virus vs bacterial infection.

Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by bitwize on Sunday April 14, 2024 @04:05AM (#40029514)
This is Hackernews, where all major health issues are traceable to the gut.
Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by adolph on Sunday April 14, 2024 @12:15PM (#40032171)
Does that include mouth/teeth/saliva as part of the extended gut or are you talking stomach down?
Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by verall on Sunday April 14, 2024 @12:49PM (#40032455)
All of them and also seed oils.

(I hope noone is taking this seriously..)

Re:Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took differ... by adolph on Sunday April 14, 2024 @10:19PM (#40036475)
Would you also accept the nose-ear-throat-trachea-lung microbiome as well?

Also nose biome interacts with the finger and fingernail biome quite often.