News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by FergusArgyll on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @11:37AM (#39918854)
> Frost is the darkest of poets

Interesting, I always thought of him as quite optimistic. Maybe because my introduction to him was

  The way a crow
  Shook down on me
  The dust of snow
  From a hemlock tree

  Has given my heart
  A change of mood
  And saved some part
  Of a day I had rued.
it goes well with Monet's The Magpie and hot coffee
Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by PyWoody on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @11:59AM (#39919140)
'Out, Out--'

  The buzz saw snarled and rattled in the yard
  And made dust and dropped stove-length sticks of wood,
  Sweet-scented stuff when the breeze drew across it.
  And from there those that lifted eyes could count
  Five mountain ranges one behind the other
  Under the sunset far into Vermont.
  And the saw snarled and rattled, snarled and rattled,
  As it ran light, or had to bear a load.
  And nothing happened: day was all but done.
  Call it a day, I wish they might have said
  To please the boy by giving him the half hour
  That a boy counts so much when saved from work.
  His sister stood beside him in her apron
  To tell them ‘Supper.’ At the word, the saw,
  As if to prove saws knew what supper meant,
  Leaped out at the boy’s hand, or seemed to leap—
  He must have given the hand. However it was,
  Neither refused the meeting. But the hand!
  The boy’s first outcry was a rueful laugh,
  As he swung toward them holding up the hand
  Half in appeal, but half as if to keep
  The life from spilling. Then the boy saw all—
  Since he was old enough to know, big boy
  Doing a man’s work, though a child at heart—
  He saw all spoiled. ‘Don’t let him cut my hand off—
  The doctor, when he comes. Don’t let him, sister!’
  So. But the hand was gone already.
  The doctor put him in the dark of ether.
  He lay and puffed his lips out with his breath.
  And then—the watcher at his pulse took fright.
  No one believed. They listened at his heart.
  Little—less—nothing!—and that ended it.
  No more to build on there. And they, since they
  Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs.

or

'Desert Places'

  Snow falling and night falling fast, oh, fast
  In a field I looked into going past,
  And the ground almost covered smooth in snow,
  But a few weeds and stubble showing last.

  The woods around it have it - it is theirs.
  All animals are smothered in their lairs.
  I am too absent-spirited to count;
  The loneliness includes me unawares.

  And lonely as it is, that loneliness
  Will be more lonely ere it will be less -
  A blanker whiteness of benighted snow
  With no expression, nothing to express.

  They cannot scare me with their empty spaces
  Between stars - on stars where no human race is.
  I have it in me so much nearer home
  To scare myself with my own desert places.

are both pretty dark, off the top of my head. He has a number of poems that are more subtle and dig away at you in the best possible way.
Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by ghaff on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:01PM (#39919161)
Yeah. Frost has some really dark poems. The chainsaw one is always my go-to example. I've had people basically not believe them when I've told them.
Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by hermanradtke on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:49PM (#39919751)
> chainsaw

buzz saw - blade; no chain

Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by ghaff on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:53PM (#39919809)
The actual text makes it sound a lot more like a chainsaw than something else but I don't actually know given the period written.
Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by mikestew on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @03:22PM (#39921837)
It’s a fixed buzzsaw. One might be confused by the “leaped at his hand”, but Frost says in reality that “he must have given the hand”.

Basically, his sister called him to supper, which apparently distracted the boy enough that he accidentally stuck his hand in the blade.

A buzzsaw is in essence a large version of a table saw, and table saws eat many fingers and thumbs every year. Now imagine that the table saw blade is four feet tall.

Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by bdamm on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @02:21PM (#39921049)
The 1916 poem was based on a true story about a boy that Robert knew, who died in 1910. They did have circular-saw like machines in 1910 that were popular for cutting firewood, according to my wiki dive.
Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by ghaff on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @04:12PM (#39922461)
Thanks. I would have assumed cutting firewood would have involved a chainsaw but apparently not.
Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by wrycoder on Friday April 05, 2024 @12:23PM (#39944292)
Hadn’t been invented yet! No small gas engines in 1910.
Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by greenie_beans on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:41PM (#39919633)
i've got to pickup a frost book asap
Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by sevensor on Thursday April 04, 2024 @08:59AM (#39929846)
My weirdest Frost experience has been "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening." My child received the gift of a lavishly illustrated picture book with the verse printed in it. The poem is so desolate, but as far as I could tell, neither the illustrator, nor the publisher, nor the gift-giver, had given it a moment's thought. There was even an illustration of a cheery farmhouse, with yellow lantern light spilling out the windows onto the snow. This farmhouse is precisely absent in the poem.
Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by throw1234651234 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @10:54AM (#39931198)
It's probably the only poem I tried to memorize other than "Good Timber" by Malloch. I am ashamed to say I forgot both, other than 4 lines about "the woods are lovely dark and deep, but I have promises to keep."

I don't really know Frost's other poems either.

Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by PyWoody on Thursday April 04, 2024 @12:39PM (#39932737)
A good Frost quick-hitter is

  Nothing Gold Can Stay

  Nature’s first green is gold,
  Her hardest hue to hold.
  Her early leaf’s a flower;
  But only so an hour.
  Then leaf subsides to leaf.
  So Eden sank to grief,
  So dawn goes down to day.
  Nothing gold can stay.
EDIT: If you're looking for one to memorize, I should say.
Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by dev_tty01 on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:01PM (#39919163)
Hmm. I think that can be read different ways. He had a dark foreboding for the day and the crow encounter only saved a part of the day. Rather than optimistic, it could be perceived as still able recognize a small bit of light through his darkness. That's what great about art. The perception and situation of the viewer shapes the experience.
Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by FergusArgyll on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:05PM (#39919199)
To me, that's optimism. It's really the same feeling I get from The Magpie. It's like; There aren't many good things about the winter, it's cold, it's miserable, but look how pretty it can be sometimes
Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by saltcured on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @02:06PM (#39920839)
Well, it's full of conventionally dark symbols: the crow, hemlock, and cold winter season. And the diction echoes this with words like shook, dust, and rued. Other word choices could have told a very similar story in a more cheery mood, if desired.

It's also a vignette devoid of human contact, which is common to many of Frost's more introspective poems. The narrator is the main character in an empty or lonely scene, except for a brief interaction with an animal.

Even the choice to say "change of mood" delays clarity until the words "save" and "rued" provide disambiguation. Yet it is also quite short, almost an epigram.

So while the final message is one of positive valence, it is rooted in dark humor, almost a wink emerging from a scowl. I think this is an example where Frost is revisiting some of the ground shared with one of his early influences, Edgar Allen Poe.

Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by imjonse on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:26PM (#39919449)
More than optimistic, I found it funny. Then I realized I misread crow as cow.
Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by ajkjk on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @01:01PM (#39919946)
I dunno anything about poetry but the meter of that poem bugs me. Why not "from hemlock tree"? there are like random extra syllables.
Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by browningstreet on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @01:03PM (#39919974)
> The way a crow

> Shook down on me

> The dust of snow

> From a hemlock tree

a.. on.. of.. a

Also, it's all colloquial, "From hemlock tree" isn't how we speak.

Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by Jtsummers on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @01:06PM (#39920022)
It's 4/4/4/6 syllables and ABAB rhyming. The second verse, first line, is 4 syllables if you pronounce "given" more as "g'ven", smashing the g into the v.
Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by ksenzee on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @02:10PM (#39920886)
Poetry in English is usually less about syllables and more about stressed syllables.
Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by Amorymeltzer on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @02:04PM (#39920799)
To put a title to it, that's Dust of Snow
Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by temp0826 on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @04:53PM (#39922972)
Considering symbolism of hemlock and of the crow? It's hard to say at one glance, it could be taken with some heck of a lot darker implications.

Then again, "rued" may have an extra meaning too (rue = ruta graveolens = "herb of grace").

Great poem nonetheless :).

Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by QuercusMax on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @05:00PM (#39923064)
One of my favorites is Birches. He does talk about wanting to leave the earth and then come back.

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44260/birches

Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by rrrrrrrrrrrryan on Thursday April 04, 2024 @02:21AM (#39927126)
Frost's poetry is famously ambiguous. Even his most famous poem, which people usually assume is about the positive attributes of a life of nonconformity, can be read from the opposite perspective:

> Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—

> I took the one less traveled by,

> And that has made all the difference

Note he doesn't state whether the difference was positive or negative.

We put ourselves into the poetry, and much of his work can indeed be quite dark when read from a certain place.

Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by pmoriarty on Saturday April 06, 2024 @01:18PM (#39953839)
> Note he doesn't state whether the difference was positive or negative.

But if taken (as it usually is) as a metaphor of life's choices, in this case his life choices made him Robert Frost, the famous, incredibly successful poet -- so it's implied that in his case taking road less traveled by was positive.

Now, if the subject of the poem was some anonymous nobody, then maybe the poem would be more ambiguous.

Re:America's Great Poet of Darkness: A Reconsideration of Ro... by alephknoll on Friday April 05, 2024 @11:43AM (#39943797)
> Maybe because my introduction to him was

Would've thought most would view it as dark and melancholy and resigned. You get optimism from those lines?

Do you feel the following is optimistic?

'...

The woods are lovely, dark and deep,

But I have promises to keep,

And miles to go before I sleep,

And miles to go before I sleep.'

In some sense, I guess it can be viewed as optimistic. In the way 'death cures all' can be viewed as optimistic. Just never thought of it that way. Interesting.