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Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by 542458 on Friday March 29, 2024 @08:21AM (#39863166)
The article highlights that many parents whose children are absent are treating the posted assignments/homework as the primary teaching tool, so cutting that back hurts absent kids (I also understand that homework’s has been massively scaled back already in most places). Shorter days unfortunately interferes with school’s role as state-provided daycare for working parents.

Later days is a solid idea, and I believe research shows it improves student performance at the highschool level, although if I understand correctly this is largely a scheduling/budget issue with how busses are staggered today.

Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by mhitza on Friday March 29, 2024 @08:32AM (#39863276)
> Shorter days unfortunately interferes with school’s role as state-provided daycare for working parents.

If that would be the intent, arcade cabinets, open play fields, parks and other social areas within school grounds would be the way to go.

My understanding is that the current school "format" was developed during the industrial revolution stage, and its meant to instill into kids that schedule and "lifestyle". Which to many extents hasn't kept up with the way society is evolving.

More funding into schools would help (which countries contribute significantly to education anyway?), but also by helping kids develop and learn in what they have an interest. Instead of the currently standardized boring circula. And the sometimes insane hours.

On that note, during highschool I had days where I've had up to 7 different classes a day. At least when you go to work, even if it's 8 hours, I (and maybe you as well) got to slack at least 1 hour a day in the morning, or even in the afternoon after the 1 hour lunch break.

Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by the_sleaze9 on Friday March 29, 2024 @08:52AM (#39863468)
As I understand it, USA is one of the highest funded education systems in the world. Funding for education even outpaces USA's um.. robust defense spending.

The trick is to look into total funding - beyond federal funding and into state funding.

I strongly agree that education in the internet age needs to evolve. I would love to see an education system centered around critical and entrepreneurial thinking, financial literacy, Cognitive Behavioral thinking tools. If you give kids something worthwhile they'll use it and come back for more.

https://www.pgpf.org/budget-basics/how-is-k-12-education-fun...

Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by shrimp_emoji on Friday March 29, 2024 @08:54AM (#39863488)
But it's also one of the biggest countries in the world.

It's simply too big and undeveloped for education to work as well as in, say, Switzerland. See also public transportation.

Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by bombcar on Friday March 29, 2024 @10:39AM (#39864633)
Rural schools often do better than urban schools, so size and transportation are likely not the reasons.
Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by willcipriano on Friday March 29, 2024 @09:50AM (#39864095)
It's near the top per student as well.
Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by newaccount7hhhf on Friday March 29, 2024 @08:59AM (#39863561)
The dude knows that. Can he have possibly used this argument in good faith. No. Can we call it out on HN without the conservatards flagging it. No.
Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by alephnerd on Friday March 29, 2024 @08:26AM (#39863222)
My mom's a teacher in a decent school district in California, and later school times didn't have a significant effect on post-pandemic absences in her experiences (for the students who did come in, it did have a positive effect on their performance though).

The brutal truth is a subset of parents just don't care too much about education. It doesn't matter if it's an affluent or a working class district - there will always be a subset of parents that are either unable to (fairly common among impoverished parents sadly) or uninterested to (fairly uncommon among more affluent parents sadly) become much more involved parents

Basically, teachers assume parents will intervene in their students lives to give structure. Parents in the other hand assume teachers will intervene to give their children structure in their lives. And neither side will budge.

Some autonomy for kids is critical, but there also needs to be some amount of structure as well. You can't be 100% disciplinarian nor 100% free roaming. A happy balance is needed, and sadly, a handful of bad apples among both teachers and parents have deteriorated that relationship among these critical caregivers.

Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by silverquiet on Friday March 29, 2024 @08:58AM (#39863537)
There are frequently threads on this site regarding the drop-off in fertility in advanced societies. When I point out that not all of us are capable of handling the stresses of modern child-rearing given the intense expectations for education and concomitant expense of that, someone will inevitably chime in with something like, "kids don't really need all that". I'm sure that they did not decades ago, and I'd love for it to be the case that they did not these days, but it seems that the future for those who do not make it through the system is rather bleak.
Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by alephnerd on Friday March 29, 2024 @09:02AM (#39863580)
In all honesty, America is now a cutthroat society similar to those back in the old country (and even developed ones too like Korea, Taiwan, Japan, and Israel).

A lot of Americans and Westerners in general seem to ignore that reality, and will fall behind.

Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by toomuchtodo on Friday March 29, 2024 @08:39AM (#39863345)
~40% of pregnancies annually in the US are unintended, so the uninvolved/uninterested/under-resourced parent thesis isn’t unreasonable.
Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by alephnerd on Friday March 29, 2024 @08:43AM (#39863389)
Absolutely!

There absolutely is a small subset of parents like that, though being in the Bay Area, access to abortion has been fairly common for decades, especially given the affluence of the district and the relative lack of stigma, so I don't see that as playing a significant factor.

Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by toomuchtodo on Friday March 29, 2024 @08:56AM (#39863517)
~11.6 million children live in poverty in the US as of this comment, so while I have no context wrt the Bay Area (have never lived there), I can reasonably put forth that this cohort in particular will not receive the environment needed for robust educational development.

https://datacenter.aecf.org/data/tables/43-children-in-pover...

Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by alephnerd on Friday March 29, 2024 @08:58AM (#39863539)
Agreed, and I mention it in my comment as well, so IDK what your point is.
Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by toomuchtodo on Friday March 29, 2024 @09:00AM (#39863567)
My point is that parenting is hard, expensive, very involved [1] [2], and it should be unsurprising that the success rate is not great from an attendance or academic outcome perspective. Not arguing with you, providing citations for my thesis that agrees with your anecdotes.

[1] https://archive.is/dXpQf

[2] https://archive.is/dXpQf/fba33991824e68e9b1ecfbde5c773bcbe92... (from [1])

Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by alephnerd on Friday March 29, 2024 @09:07AM (#39863636)
Fair enough! Sorry for the standoffish tone! HN has been getting to me lately
Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by newaccount7hhhf on Friday March 29, 2024 @09:05AM (#39863617)
Are you fucking kidding me.
Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by pastage on Friday March 29, 2024 @08:35AM (#39863314)
I only have anecdata but the three kids I know of all have some kind of diagnosis making it hard for them in school. From my recollection it was more or less the same in my days just that the kids went to school and wasted their time. Some kids are definitely harder to help than others.

EDIT: This is for Sweden where we are talking about the same issue. But I do not think we have the same numbers here.

Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by alephnerd on Friday March 29, 2024 @08:37AM (#39863332)
> some kind of diagnosis making it hard for them in school

This is a valid reason to be absent, and school administrators, teachers, and statistics take that into account.

My comment was aimed specifically at students who don't have valid physical or mental issues.

My mom's school district does not enforce suspensions for chronic absenteeism due to a subset of very affluent and litigious parents.

> This is for Sweden

Makes sense. There is no point comparing the Swedish or "American" system, as there are 13,187 different American systems that all have different norms and rules besides a handful stipulated by the DoE.

Even inter-US comparisons don't make sense for that reason.

Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by HWR_14 on Friday March 29, 2024 @09:17AM (#39863746)
Did schools really start later post-pandemic? Your entire first paragraph confuses me because I'm not aware of any shift in school start times.
Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by alephnerd on Friday March 29, 2024 @09:20AM (#39863772)
I'm speaking only about California and specifically, the school district my mom works for.

As of 2022, Middle schools can start at 8am at the earliest, and number of school districts transitioned to a 8.30-9am start time. Some affluent school districts already did this transition in the late 2000s and early 2010s.

The US has roughy 13k school districts. Each one has it's own different sets of rules, regulations, and local political culture, and aside from limited State and Federal DoE regulation, implement their policies based on local political constraints due to the School Board and PTA.

Some School Boards and PTAs are apolitical in nature. Others are hyper-political and used as a stepping stone to enter local and state level politics (eg. Mayor, City Council, State Assembly, Congress) as donors won't donate without a proven electoral track record. Most younger (< 60yrs) Congressmembers started their political careers this way.

Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by JumpCrisscross on Friday March 29, 2024 @08:24AM (#39863194)
> if I understand correctly this is largely a scheduling/budget issue with how busses are staggered today

My California public school district had no busses. I still remember miserably making 7AM classes.

Re:Why School Absences Have 'Exploded' Almost Everywhere by alephnerd on Friday March 29, 2024 @08:27AM (#39863230)
They still don't, even when I was a kid and even today.