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Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by vouaobrasil on Monday March 25, 2024 @08:08AM (#39815279)
First, I know a lot of people are very nice to their dogs, but...

I live in a large city, and based on the number of dogs locked away in apartments all day barking and bored to death with almost no stimulation, I figure dogs are certainly not the best friends of a lot of people. Instead, they are more like prisoners that illustrate the cruelness of humanity in general: these people use them as entertainment and care fairly little for their overall welfare.

Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by Arisaka1 on Monday March 25, 2024 @08:20AM (#39815381)
Me and my parents came to an agreement that we will not own a pet while we live in an apartment precisely because of this sentiment. I also disagree with the strawman the other comment presented: The alternative isn't to have the dog fight for survival on the streets as a stray. The alternative is to have the dog owned by a family that can actually provide it with the appropriate environment.
Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by poloniculmov on Monday March 25, 2024 @08:34AM (#39815522)
Dogs are very social and they love to be with their humans, your pet is not going to be happier being left alone in the back yard than lounging on the couch with you.
Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by JohnBooty on Monday March 25, 2024 @08:58AM (#39815740)
I do not see where the parent poster advocated for leaving a dog alone in the back yard.
Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by poloniculmov on Monday March 25, 2024 @10:18AM (#39816656)
They didn't, I'm pointing out that the problem isn't the space (apartment), but that owners aren't providing adequate stimulation and companionship for the dogs.
Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by newsclues on Monday March 25, 2024 @08:30AM (#39815487)
Lived on a farm with a 100 acres a dog could roam freely in.

Live in a suburban house with a small back yard and a small dog doesn't like it and wants to roam.

Dogs are great in rural areas, in cities I think they suffer for the sake of humans.

Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by matwood on Monday March 25, 2024 @08:34AM (#39815518)
Really depends on the dog. The problem is that people get high activity working dogs and then don't work them.
Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by newsclues on Monday March 25, 2024 @09:56PM (#39823533)
It’s not just the exercise but enjoyment of the outdoors and nature.
Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by pookha on Monday March 25, 2024 @09:26AM (#39816003)
Not always that simple. I have a giant doberman. I no-shit threw a frisbee for this doberman 72 times yesterday (and ran with her three miles). She gets more exercise than the sheltie I had as a kid that ran leash-free in the country. And if you dare leave her in the backyard her whine could emit high-pitch frequencies that shake glass. She's a city dog that would be lost in the country without a human to hang with.
Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by mynameisvlad on Monday March 25, 2024 @08:11AM (#39815306)
That’s an extremely harsh take considering those same owners likely do care a lot about their dogs and shower them with love and affection outside those 8 hours. You’re focusing on a single part of the experience in order to paint the whole thing in a negative light.

To put it another way, would they be better off being strays? I doubt it.

Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by vouaobrasil on Monday March 25, 2024 @08:16AM (#39815347)
Extremely harsh? Many of these dogs are very smart. What about locking a human away for 8 hours with no internet, no books, no entertainment, nothing to do?

And it might be affection they give their dogs but it's not really love if they are so cruel. Besides, they wouldn't be strays if they were never bought, at least not a lot of them if the demand were lower, then so would the breeding and supply.

Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by rybosworld on Monday March 25, 2024 @08:32AM (#39815503)
> What about locking a human away for 8 hours with no internet, no books, no entertainment, nothing to do

These arguments fall apart when the animal is anthropomorphized.

Dogs sleep a lot more than people do, needing around 12 hours. They will take about 4 hours of that sleep in the day regardless if a human is around.

It's very breed dependent but, the majority of dogs don't require a significant amount of mental stimulation. For most breeds, a half hour of mental stimulation is plenty.

Obviously locking a husky or a cattle dog in an apartment (and this unfortunately does happen), is another story. There are certain breeds you shouldn't go for if you live in an apartment. But there are a lot of breeds that do just fine, even some large ones, like greyhounds.

Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by matwood on Monday March 25, 2024 @08:47AM (#39815641)
Exactly. My wife has been rescuing French Bulldogs for years. Even before they were this popular. The problem is they have all sorts of health issues that people don't account for, so they get turned in more than you think. But, their demeanor makes them great apartment dogs. They'll happily sleep 15 hours/day, and even when outside will lay down in the sun to sleep more.

Speaking of greyhounds, we fostered an Italian Greyhound one time...and I thought Frenchies were fragile.

Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by lallysingh on Monday March 25, 2024 @08:25AM (#39815437)
I called that K-12.
Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by triceratops on Monday March 25, 2024 @09:56AM (#39816361)
You didn't have books in school?
Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by hackable_sand on Monday March 25, 2024 @08:52PM (#39823116)
Dog ate them
Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by triceratops on Monday March 25, 2024 @08:55AM (#39815703)
Pre-pandemic, when my partner and I had to go to work and leave the dog alone, we made sure to leave multiple treat toys and puzzles for entertainment, and were never away for longer than 6 hours.

Now that we both work from home we can see that the dog mostly sleeps all day, occasionally getting up to bark at some squirrels or passers-by.

Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by the_af on Monday March 25, 2024 @09:12AM (#39815858)
> To put it another way, would they be better off being strays? I doubt it.

Adopting a dog will probably do it good, but a lot of people are buying dogs from dog breeders (and then the mentioned behavior happens, dogs left alone to bark in apartments). Should dogs be purposefully bred as pets, only to be left alone for hours on end?

Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by rybosworld on Monday March 25, 2024 @08:23AM (#39815414)
That's a pretty extreme take.

Being unfit to raise a dog does not imply cruelty.

Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by sph on Monday March 25, 2024 @08:37AM (#39815558)
I strongly agree and it's apparent not everybody shares this opinion.

I grew up in the countryside in the middle of nowhere, my dog used to have an enormous backyard to run in, and was cheeky enough to have made a hole in the fence when that time of the year came and he really wanted to leave for a couple days at a time, either to sire some puppies, or to roll around in horse dung. We used a leash whenever we took him amidst civilization, otherwise he was used to just walking unleashed, with us (mostly getting impatient at how slow humans are), sniffing anything he wanted and peeing on every pole that stood in his path.

I miss him every day (died at 15 years old a happy and free half golden retriever mutt). I'd love another dog, but I know they're a type of animal that enjoys a large territory, freedom, as well as a social hierarchy. I will have to suffer with this hole inside of me until I am able to leave the city and offer a dog not only love, but large enough space to run around and not get bored to death.

Cats on the other hand, as long as they have food and are left alone, can happily live holed up in a flat. Thrive, I'm not sure, but they have much simpler needs than dogs.

Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by actionfromafar on Monday March 25, 2024 @10:08AM (#39816529)
Some dogs really can handle modest exercise. I know a happy cocker spaniel who’s an apartment dweller. Gets a lot of human interaction with almost constant human companions, with about ten humans rotating in and out of the dogs life over a month. So, exercise wise, not too much except walks in the city and parks, but socially a very interesting life. I am sure a husky would go insane in the same circumstances. It also very much depends on the individual, so if you get a dog, find out as much as possible how it’s close relatives behave.
Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by temporarely on Monday March 25, 2024 @08:49AM (#39815659)
> Cats on the other hand

are much more like humans - cat's dig urbanism, can hang out at a cafe for hours, sit on a couch watching the tube all day, they happily adapt.. So that' why we say "there's a cool cat" but you never hear anything about "cool dogs". So your theory is correct in my opinion: dogs are good rural friends and cats are good urban friends. There is also the matter of dog poop. Has anyone every complained on cat poop on their stoop? Or getting bitten by the neighbor's cat? Or being annoyed at the neighbor's mewing cat?

Now a cat on a farm, don't know about that. Wonder how that would work.

Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by sph on Monday March 25, 2024 @08:50AM (#39815666)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farm_cat

We domesticated cats so they would keep rats away from our winter grain storage.

Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by Jensson on Monday March 25, 2024 @10:30AM (#39816809)
I assume it was more like humans found cats in their winter grain storage, saw the cat ate rats and left the grain alone, so humans left the cat alone. Ten thousand years later and we are now in a closer relationship.
Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by DontchaKnowit on Monday March 25, 2024 @09:00AM (#39815751)
Any farm ive ever been to has about 8 mildly domesticated cats that live around the premises.
Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by BeFlatXIII on Monday March 25, 2024 @09:13AM (#39815867)
> Now a cat on a farm, don't know about that. Wonder how that would work.

Can easily feed themselves from all the rodents enjoying the grain supply.

Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by doublepg23 on Monday March 25, 2024 @09:59AM (#39816399)
This is either amazing satire or the most Hacker News comment ever written.
Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by temporarely on Monday March 25, 2024 @11:01AM (#39817176)
"Beware of the Cat!" ..
Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by hsjsbeebue on Monday March 25, 2024 @01:53PM (#39819340)
Small dogs can do OK in your typical suburban block. (Block as in land for single dwelling). They need walks though yes.
Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by pvg on Monday March 25, 2024 @09:00AM (#39815757)
Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by scrapcode on Monday March 25, 2024 @09:03AM (#39815784)
Unfortunately, this pet-owner energy mismatch extends to those who live in all types of environments. People will often seek a companion putting plenty of research into their looks, size, and how much they shed - without paying mind to the breed's temperament. I work with high-drive waterfowl retrievers that have seemingly endless energy and they can really start to act up without proper frequent exercise. They require multiple 20+ minute sessions of training/running per day that would be equivalent to many miles of running each session.
Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by JohnBooty on Monday March 25, 2024 @09:19AM (#39815922)
I generally agree that cities and apartments aren't great places for dogs.

But a lot of dogs are rescues, and a lot of breeds are quite happy in apartments.

There are also a lot of mitigations possible. There are dog walkers and dog sitters who come by and walk the dogs during the daytime. You can have multiple dogs that keep each other company. Etc.

    based on the number of dogs locked away in apartments 
    all day barking and bored to death with almost no 
    stimulation
Respectfully, it seems like you don't know a lot about dogs?

A barking dog isn't necessarily distressed. In fact, they're probably not distressed: there are a lot of other ways that dogs show that.

They also like to sleep during the daytime. They sleep a lot in general. They are pretty adaptable to our schedules.

While I generally don't think we should be breeding dogs at all, the reality is that there are a lot of dogs who need homes (as well as homes who need dogs!) and in the majority of situations I think that getting dogs into homes with a loving family is preferable to euthanizing them.

Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by antisthenes on Monday March 25, 2024 @10:04AM (#39816474)
> While I generally don't think we should be breeding dogs at all

What do you mean by this? If we don't breed dogs, in about 15 years or so, there will be no dogs left at all.

Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by Sprocklem on Monday March 25, 2024 @01:30PM (#39819078)
I can't speak for GP, but I personally find it kind of fucked up that we selectively breed a lot of dogs for certain asthetic traits at the expense of their health. I assume they meant this brand of artificial selection rather than letting dogs reproduce at all.
Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by JohnBooty on Monday March 25, 2024 @04:57PM (#39821194)
Right. I wasn't very clear. I perhaps made it sound like I didn't want any more dogs to be born.

To be clearer, my wish is that we could curtail breeding until supply matched demand. Rather than the current situation where lots of dogs are put down because there are more dogs than homes.

Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by dazc on Monday March 25, 2024 @09:33AM (#39816077)
I am not a lover of dogs, which some people seem to find offensive? Yet, people who are cruel to dogs are, generally, dog owners and not people like me who just give them a wide berth.

Anyone who thinks an animal enjoys being locked indoors all day with no understanding of why, or for how long it will be, is a much lesser person than me.

Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by the_common_man on Monday March 25, 2024 @10:01AM (#39816425)
They are pets and not friends
Re:When Did Dogs Become Our Best Friends? by vouaobrasil on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @07:50AM (#39826695)
They are neither. They are living beings that we just happened to have modified through artificial selection to be our slaves.