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Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by autoexec on Thursday March 14, 2024 @09:42PM (#39711245)
It looks like a lot of this stuff is already in the public domain and so they are just letting people use the scans/photos of these works that they took and are hosting. It's a shame that we don't already have this being done by public libraries.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by dhosek on Thursday March 14, 2024 @10:04PM (#39711348)
Some do. A lot depends on the library’s resources, but the Library of Congress has a lot of free imagery available, and I think a number of other large public libraries with art collections also do the same.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by autoexec on Thursday March 14, 2024 @10:28PM (#39711472)
Hopefully they're taking advantage of this release and adding these images and scans into their own collections.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by chefandy on Friday March 15, 2024 @01:50AM (#39712428)
I'd be shocked if the IA wasn't all over this already.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by GuB-42 on Friday March 15, 2024 @05:55AM (#39713817)
Many AIs didn't care about whether images were free to use before training. Including many from Getty, with the watermark, and it resulted in a lawsuit that is still ongoing.

And 88k images is tiny when we consider that LAION has billions of entries.

Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by Vinnl on Friday March 15, 2024 @06:04AM (#39713873)
IA = the Internet Archive, https://archive.org.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by chefandy on Friday March 15, 2024 @10:28AM (#39716152)
Yeah, sorry. Theory of mind failure on my part. Not everybody has my list of acronyms in their head, apparently.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by notatoad on Thursday March 14, 2024 @11:26PM (#39711778)
>just letting people use

don't dismiss the value in simply making them accessible. they're providing a platform to access these works, which is great.

Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by chefandy on Friday March 15, 2024 @01:45AM (#39712403)
I'm surprised to find myself defending Getty Images at all, but here I am. Before I dealt with huge collections as a developer, I didn't consider how much intellectual work went into managing collections as entities-- Things like ontology, or even maintaining consistent terminology usage in that much metadata is not trivial, and older materials cause the most problems. Even if these were exclusively public domain images, it would still be a praiseworthy effort. I'm sure some Getty archivist or the like fought hard for this.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by jvergeldedios on Friday March 15, 2024 @02:13AM (#39712523)
This isn't a Getty Images initiative, but rather being run by the Getty Museum which is under the Getty Trust. My partner actually works on some of these systems at the Getty and you're right, it's daunting. The sad part is that the Getty gets to do these kinds of things only because it's one of the best endowed institutions on the planet with funding to pay researchers/archivists/developers to do this work. There is so much more that is locked away at large, medium, and small institutions that would be available for the public, but just isn't because of lack of funding.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by chefandy on Friday March 15, 2024 @12:08PM (#39717337)
> This isn't a Getty Images initiative, but rather being run by the Getty Museum

ADHD fail on my part! I even skimmed the article and totally didn't even parse that basic bit of context. Considering that Getty Images (originally photodisc) didn't appear until the early 90s, I'd love to see this turn into a Worldwide Wildlife Federation/Wordwide Wrestling Federation thing.

It being a museum makes it a lot more compelling though. Great job Getty!

>The sad part is that the Getty gets to do these kinds of things only because it's one of the best endowed institutions on the planet with funding to pay researchers/archivists/developers to do this work

And even within those institutions there's still more work than could feasibly be done. I worked in one of the best-funded, if not the best-funded non-governmental library systems on the planet and they've got an order of magnitude more things that need to be digitized than what they've already done, and they do a LOT already.

Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by supermatt on Friday March 15, 2024 @02:40AM (#39712658)
It’s 88k images… I think you are massively overestimating the complexity
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by notachatbot123 on Friday March 15, 2024 @04:10AM (#39713205)
Which necessary steps and how much time would you estimate per image?
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by xandrius on Friday March 15, 2024 @07:03AM (#39714200)
They probably think they can code something in 5 minutes
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by supermatt on Friday March 15, 2024 @07:33AM (#39714358)
"Before I dealt with huge collections as a developer" says the comment I responded to. 88k is not a huge collection of anything from a software development perspective.

The compilation of that collection is obviously more considerable. Archivists at Getty have already said it is about 10 years work for ~20 people.

Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by notachatbot123 on Friday March 15, 2024 @07:59AM (#39714568)
I guess that depends on what you consider "development" to be?
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by supermatt on Friday March 15, 2024 @08:50AM (#39714934)
Yeah, I suppose thats a fair point.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by chefandy on Saturday March 16, 2024 @02:17AM (#39723765)
> I didn't consider how much intellectual work went into managing collections as entities

I wasn't talking about the software development side, and I certainly wouldn't call the tech end of this a significant part of the 'intellectual work.' Organizing and managing 88k images is something my laptop 10 years ago wouldn't balk at, serving them is something a low-tier vps could do, and supporting CRUD apps for the archivists, etc are usually trivial. I think you're massively underestimating the importance of other people's tasks in these operations. Even as a developer, the people-focused work-- e.g. working with the other teams to strategize about how tech could best suit their processes, training, design iterations, etc.-- was more work than any technical component.

Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by chefandy on Friday March 15, 2024 @12:00PM (#39717233)
You're thinking about this from a technical perspective. The content, and therefore structure and logical chunking of the metadata is far more consequential than the number of images. I've seen people in academic environments pour tens of thousands of post-doc-hours into cataloging a few thousand images:

https://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/

Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by smrq on Friday March 15, 2024 @02:14AM (#39712532)
The J. Paul Getty Museum, not to be confused with Getty Images. (I made the same mistake reading the headline.) Don't worry, you can continue to hate on Getty Images at your leisure.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by chefandy on Friday March 15, 2024 @11:50AM (#39717089)
Haha... d'oh! That's a fail.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by imgabe on Thursday March 14, 2024 @10:22PM (#39711441)
Even if the artwork is in the public domain, the photo of the artwork that someone takes still has a copyright and you need permission to use it.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by CrazyStat on Thursday March 14, 2024 @10:33PM (#39711496)
This is not true in the US. The most relevant case is Bridgeman v. Corel [1], ruling that photographic reproductions of public domain paintings could not be copyrighted.

Museums like to pretend that they hold copyrights on these photos. They do not.

(In the US).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgeman_Art_Library_v._Corel....

Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by imgabe on Thursday March 14, 2024 @10:41PM (#39711538)
In practice, you still need the museum's cooperation to do anything commercial with it, for most people who don't have the resources to defend a lawsuit.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by autoexec on Thursday March 14, 2024 @10:44PM (#39711560)
More importantly, even though you can't copyright a photo/scan of a public domain work you also don't have to share those images with others at all, you could still paywall them off and (arguably) impose additional restrictions as a condition of getting access, and you certainly don't have to host the files online for everyone like this.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by ufocia on Friday March 15, 2024 @01:51AM (#39712431)
Yes, you could physically and contractually prohibit others from copying the original work.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by dtech on Friday March 15, 2024 @05:26AM (#39713646)
Could you though? Once you have a good image if it isn't copyrighted it sounds like any licencing agreement is void. You could just distribute not under terms of the license, but as a public domain images.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by Animats on Friday March 15, 2024 @12:28AM (#39712077)
Wikipedia has assumed, since Bridgeman vs. Corel, that images of public domain works are public domain. Once some portrait museum in the UK threatened to sue, but backed down quickly.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by VanTheBrand on Thursday March 14, 2024 @10:30PM (#39711479)
That’s jurisdiction dependent. For example it’s not longer the case in the UK. https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2023/12/29/court-of-appeal-r...
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by ronsor on Thursday March 14, 2024 @10:30PM (#39711481)
This is not true in the US.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by nemo on Thursday March 14, 2024 @10:34PM (#39711498)
Under U.S. copyright law, the person who creates a work is the copyright owner. So if a photographer takes a picture of an artwork, they own the rights to their image.

Read more here: https://www.copyright.gov/engage/visual-artists/

Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by autoexec on Thursday March 14, 2024 @10:49PM (#39711582)
A photo of a public domain work doesn't generally count as "creating a work". Especially not when there's nothing artistic added or any additional context to it. If I just take a photo of an artwork that's already in the public domain it is essentially little more than a reproduction.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by sgentle on Friday March 15, 2024 @12:57AM (#39712190)
You might find it helpful to refer to the Copyright Office's Compendium, which covers copyright law specifics in more detail. It's big, but quite approachable.

Chapter 300 covers copyrightability in general: https://copyright.gov/comp3/chap300/ch300-copyrightable-auth...

> 313.4(A): A work that is a mere copy of another work of authorship is not copyrightable. The Office cannot register a work that has been merely copied from another work of authorship without any additional original authorship. [...] Bridgeman Art Library, Ltd. v. Corel Corp., 36 F. Supp. 2d 191, 195 (S.D.N.Y. 1999) ("exact photographic copies of public domain works of art would not be copyrightable under United States law because they are not original").

Chapter 900 covers visual art specifically and goes into more detail on the copyrightability of photographs: https://www.copyright.gov/comp3/chap900/ch900-visual-art.pdf

> 909.3(A): [...] A photograph that is merely a "slavish copy" of a painting, drawing, or other public domain or copyrighted work is not eligible for registration. The registration specialist will refuse a claim if it is clear that the photographer merely used the camera to copy the source work without adding any creative expression to the photo. Similarly, merely scanning and digitizing existing works does not contain a sufficient amount of creativity to warrant copyright protection.

Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by mediumsmart on Friday March 15, 2024 @01:17AM (#39712278)
But the photo needs to be taken at a weird angle and it helps to place a live squirrel somewhere on the artwork.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by inglor_cz on Friday March 15, 2024 @04:21AM (#39713281)
Copyright only protects creative works, where the author's artistic intent can be distinguished.

Faithful reproductions of non-copyrighted two-dimensional work are considered non-copyrightable, because nothing of artistic value is added in the process. (There is a lot of mechanical work around photos, but mechanical work doesn't enjoy copyright.)

Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by ghaff on Friday March 15, 2024 @07:58AM (#39714567)
Right. Just because something is a lot of work ("sweat of the brow"), doesn't make it copyrightable in the US. Feist is one of the main cases in thiss area as I understand it.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by mikae1 on Friday March 15, 2024 @02:44AM (#39712677)
> It's a shame that we don't already have this being done by public libraries.

What makes you say that? It's already done by so many institutions within the GLAM sector. They usually don't have the same marketing budget as Getty though. Here's[1] a glimpse into the digital heritage of the EU. That's a good starting point for some exploration.

[1] https://www.europeana.eu/en

Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by xniclb on Friday March 15, 2024 @03:24AM (#39712916)
> Unfortunately, the item media as provided to Europeana can not be displayed at the moment. Please try to download the media or view the item on the providing institution's website.

Download link is a dead dropbox account. And this is the first thing I tried.

Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by notachatbot123 on Friday March 15, 2024 @04:10AM (#39713197)
Bad luck to get something like that in 50,000,000+ chances. Which item was it?
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by courseofaction on Friday March 15, 2024 @05:18AM (#39713596)
the number chances is not the problem, it's their outcome ;)
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by slowmotiony on Friday March 15, 2024 @08:56AM (#39714971)
I tried 5 random things and every single one was a dead link. Taxpayer money well spent here
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by notachatbot123 on Friday March 15, 2024 @10:24AM (#39716106)
Where and what exactly?

I entered "dog" as search term and each and every item I clicked on, that had a Download option, worked fantastically well: https://www.europeana.eu/en/search?page=1&view=grid&query=do...

Taxpayer money well spent indeed!

Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by capitainenemo on Friday March 15, 2024 @11:32AM (#39716878)
Still very low resolution though :/
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by notachatbot123 on Monday March 18, 2024 @08:13AM (#39743159)
Which one? I got a gigapixel image of a nice artwork as a TIFF with little effort.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by capitainenemo on Monday March 18, 2024 @01:44PM (#39747492)
The image in the parent we were commenting on, and many others I searched for as well. I couldn't find any interface for identifying which resources on the remote sites were of reasonably high resolution that would be useful, and which were not.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by rvnx on Friday March 15, 2024 @09:33AM (#39715284)
Spending 6 millions EUR per year to get an index of blurry pictures in ElasticSearch (that they just crawled from somewhere). Well, it's only here for 15 years... so make the calculation.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by c0balt on Friday March 15, 2024 @12:54PM (#39717858)
You are clearly misrepresentating the value here. They also put a watermark on each image. /s
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by capitainenemo on Friday March 15, 2024 @01:05PM (#39718005)
In all fairness, they don't all have watermarks. I don't know why. Perhaps they collected images from a variety of sources before downscaling and those sources included watermarks. I kind of wish that sort of thing had been part of the QA process though. Decent resolution and clean images would make this so much more valuable.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by criddell on Friday March 15, 2024 @07:48AM (#39714466)
This is the first item I tried:

https://www.europeana.eu/en/item/08547/Museu_ProvidedCHO_Sta...

The image is only 600x768 pixels. Way too small to be useful. You can't even read the text in the image. The original work is 30x42 cm.

Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by capitainenemo on Friday March 15, 2024 @09:34AM (#39715291)
Ouch. And with a 300 pixel wide watermark at that...
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by mikae1 on Friday March 15, 2024 @01:47PM (#39718559)
A starting point for exploration, as I said… You usually have to follow links to the online collections of the originating institution to find high resolution files. Some have them, some do not.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by capitainenemo on Friday March 15, 2024 @02:11PM (#39718882)
It would be cool if it actually worked like that (as a low resolution preview of things you can get on the actual museum website) - in this case the one offered on the museum website appears to be identical. Same low resolution, same watermark. Perhaps they could save people time by tagging entries that they had already received in low or watermark damaged quality so they could be filtered out of the search.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by mikae1 on Friday March 15, 2024 @05:30PM (#39720920)
As I wrote, "Some have them, some do not."

There are lots of possible obstacles to showing high resolution digitizations.

Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by capitainenemo on Monday March 18, 2024 @01:43PM (#39747480)
Yes. I'm just noting as currently implemented, it's not very usable. If they had filtering for the low quality trash, it'd be more useful.
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by criddell on Friday March 15, 2024 @03:03PM (#39719470)
The fact that they would deface the image with a watermark tells me a great deal about the values of the "museum".
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by eternauta3k on Friday March 15, 2024 @02:55PM (#39719372)
Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by latexr on Friday March 15, 2024 @07:11AM (#39714245)
> It's a shame that we don't already have this being done by public libraries.

Except we do.

https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishlibrary

Re:The Getty Makes Nearly 88,000 Art Images Free to Use Howe... by jacoblambda on Friday March 15, 2024 @03:02PM (#39719457)
Adding on to this: The National Diet Library of Japan has a lot of very well digitised resources. They can be a bit annoying to get to but they are there.

NDL Digital Collections: https://dl.ndl.go.jp/

NDL Image Bank: https://ndlsearch.ndl.go.jp/en/imagebank

If you view items in the image bank, they show you a preview. You'll then have to click the link that takes you to the digital collections page for that item (which shows the full uncropped image). From there you will want to scroll down to the download panel and make sure you select "high resolution". Those images are generally at least around 2k x 2k or better depending on when they were captured.

You should also be able to get the unconverted image from their api (as many of them are in varying, less common formats like JP2/JPEG2000) but I haven't been able to figure out how. If you sent someone at the library an email you could probably figure it out though.