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Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by pvaldes on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @08:29AM (#39690581)
"[Each Sequoiadendron tree] can potentially pull an average of 85 kilograms of carbon out of the atmosphere per year".

I will try to remind this phrase, specially the per year part.

Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by pjc50 on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @08:55AM (#39690792)
Or about one air passenger trip to Europe.

("just plant trees" is not a viable solution to climate change unless you can plant a very large number of trees which live to maturity)

Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by pvaldes on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @10:30AM (#39691647)
> unless you can plant a very large number of trees which live to maturity

And this is technologically a big problem because...? Dig a hole and put a seed and pay somebody to watch it for several years is too difficult when our societies are at stake?

Because some people can't avoid to satisfy their chomp-burn-boycott-my-own-future rash?... No problem. This people needs mental help, and society can provide it. Keep them far away from nature.

Ecological systems don't show linear responses. Tiny increases or decreases in a variable can trigger huge changes. Even a partial improvement counts. In the worst case could give us a lot of extra time to have a second chance to try.

Planting trees will not mean that we will survive, just that our chances to survive will increase. It still seems a valuable goal.

Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by enriquto on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @09:15AM (#39690952)
> unless you can plant a very large number of trees which live to maturity

and what, then? When plants die, their matter is decomposed by fungi and all their carbon is released back into the atmosphere (unless the dead plant matter is buried).

The act of planting trees, in itself, is carbon neutral. Not good, not bad, just irrelevant to the presence of carbon: the carbon is still in the cycle of life within the biosphere.

To reverse the burning of fossil fuels, all that new carbon that we introduced into the biosphere needs to be buried back to where it came from. For example, by cutting trees and burying their wood in sealed mines several kilometers underground.

Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by blincoln on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @09:54AM (#39691237)
> The act of planting trees, in itself, is carbon neutral. Not good, not bad, just irrelevant to the presence of carbon: the carbon is still in the cycle of life within the biosphere.

Isn't this a little like saying that humans in a confined space don't actually use up any of the oxygen, because it's still technically present in the CO2 they exhale?

> For example, by cutting trees and burying their wood in sealed mines several kilometers underground.

What would be the net benefit of treating it like radioactive waste versus using it as a construction material? Yes, a small percentage of the carbon would escape, but most of it would stay locked up in the wood, and one wouldn't create the massive amounts of CO2 necessary to build and operate those hypothetical mines.

Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by enriquto on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @11:48AM (#39692893)
> What would be the net benefit of treating it like radioactive waste versus using it as a construction material?

Man, that was just a silly example to illustrate the absurdity of the situation. We are currently unearthing millions of years worth of sequestered carbon per year and dumping it all into the atmosphere. Talking about planting trees is ridiculous at this point. Like pumping water out of the sinking titanic with a champagne glass. If we don't want to increase the amount of carbon in the atmosphere we just need to stop putting it in!

Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by bcatanzaro on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @10:49AM (#39691875)
Generally I agree but Sequoiadendron wood is famously unsuitable for construction. It’s brittle and shatters easily.

Not the same as Sequoia wood, which is famously wonderful for construction!

Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by BlueTemplar on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @12:10PM (#39693300)
You seem to be assuming that the carbon will stay locked in the construction materials. But I doubt that it will, what will happen to it after the building is destroyed ? Either it will have been by fire, or as waste, will likely be back in the atmosphere after wood-eating life is done with it.

I wonder how feasible it would be to put wood (from particularly dense species ?) on the bottom of the expanding anoxic ocean zones ? That seems to be one of the rare locations where the only thing that could possibly degrade it are sulphur-"breathing" bacteria, which seem to have trouble digesting lignin ?

But even here, it might still be easier to just stop burning fossil fuels ? EDIT : ninjaed

P.S.: For an opposite example, see how concrete reabsorbs over decades back up to half of the CO2 exhaled during its production.

P.P.S.: Supposedly, soil-buried charcoal is also decently stable, I guess even fungi find it unpalatable ??

Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by therealdrag0 on Thursday March 14, 2024 @02:22AM (#39701048)
The thing is humans build more and more. Any destruction or burning is replaced with more building. So in that sense construction with wood has aligned incentives and is more economical than just burying carbon with is purely a cost. But construction seems unlikely to be sufficient alone. Tho most of the world prefers concrete which is also releases carbon iirc so them switching to wood may help.
Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by omnibrain on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @10:22AM (#39691552)
> and what, then? When plants die, their matter is decomposed by fungi and all their carbon is released back into the atmosphere (unless the dead plant matter is buried).

Why does every measure have to solve the problem? Buying time is just as important. We start mammoth groves now. Buy time for measures that solve the problem and win huge ressources (building wood, recreational space, erosion prevention) for the future.

Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by mapt on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @11:38AM (#39692685)
It's not "Mammoth groves" if you want to meaningfully "buy time". A grove is an open tree stand a few acres wide. That's not what we're talking about. It's not adding a little bit of tree seed to unused spaces. It's inverting our footprint entirely.

It's planting the entirety of the UK, every year, indefinitely. It's employing a few million people with heavy machinery to walk from one side of the planet to the other and bulldoze every farmhouse they find, leaving behind mixed saplings at a wide spacing in the fields.

It's just way easier to decarbonize most of our society than it is to spend the land on forest carbon fixation. It's a lot of land, more land than we'd ever agree to dedicate.

And I would point out that planting trees and then sequestering that carbon periodically with charcoal production is by far the easiest way. Every other technique is ten or a hundred or a thousand times lower payoff.

If you want to slow things down, you have to mostly stop burning fossil fuels. We need to tax the hell out of them, we need to shut down new projects, we need to electrify anything feasible, we need to heavily subsidize and aggressively plan for rapidly scaling renewables. When we're at a 90% reduction in fossil fuel usage, then we can re-assess priorities because we've both "bought some time" and eliminated all the low-hanging fruit that's easier than deliberate carbon fixation projects.

More likely, we'll keep on steamrolling ahead, and something like sulfur geoengineering will be put forward as a way to stave off the worst effects for a while.

Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by HPsquared on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @10:16AM (#39691470)
All the work involved in felling, cutting and manually sequestering the wood sounds like it could be more expensive - and a lot slower and less scalable - than direct air capture. (Which is already uneconomical)
Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by medstrom on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @09:26AM (#39691025)
I suppose we could do that too, down the line, if we plant trees now.

It's at least a method of buying time, but maybe not so reliable. It presumes no one will find a way to cut them down for profit later. So maybe we'd need to add each tree planted to a growing count of trees "never to be cut" in the country.

Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by huytersd on Thursday March 14, 2024 @02:19AM (#39701032)
Yeah but with a sequoia that release is 3000 years in the future.
Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by asadotzler on Thursday March 14, 2024 @08:52PM (#39710914)
>and what, then? When plants die, their matter is decomposed

Redwoods can give us a few thousand years to sort that out before they decompose.

Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by badcppdev on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @11:41AM (#39692751)
One passenger trip to Europe from where? It's the internet. No one knows where you live!
Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by vaylian on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @09:16AM (#39690963)
And you need to make sure that the wood doesn't have a chance to decompose after the tree dies.
Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by pvaldes on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @02:24PM (#39695324)
We will left that task for people living 800 years on the future.
Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by renewiltord on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @07:28PM (#39698824)
Yeah, I was told that a few corporations do most of the CO2 emission, so now I just fly where I want to and eat what I want to. Very liberating to know I can't do anything.
Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by nkurz on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @08:45PM (#39699365)
What exactly are you saying is equal to "about one air passenger trip to Europe"?

OP says 85 kg/year of Carbon per really big tree.

The first calculator I tried said a one way trip from NYC to London on a 787 is over 1000 kg of CO2: https://co2.myclimate.org/en/portfolios?calculation_id=67960...

Now, C is about 25% of the weight of CO2, so this would be 250 kg of Carbon. Is the calculator overestimating? Is my math wrong? Am I interpreting you wrong? Or are you low by a factor of 3?

Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by pvaldes on Thursday March 14, 2024 @04:40AM (#39701628)
> Is the calculator overestimating?

Maybe. My own calculus gives a first approximate value of 50Kg of Carbon for the same trip NY-London (approx 5570Km) in optimum conditions. The calculators forget also that sometimes tail winds can help, so is just an unsophisticated raw average.

In any case nothing prevent us to design hybrid planes to reduce the fuel consume. A turbine is just a motor so can be built in several different ways. And we could try also both things, hybrid planes and helping forests at the same time.

Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by Fricken on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @08:52AM (#39690763)
Average Per capita annual emissions for UK residents is 5.22 metric tons, according to Google.
Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by nvdk on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @09:01AM (#39690844)
So about 65 trees needed per resident, that might still be doable? edit: nope, of course being a large tree it also needs a lot of land.
Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by pvaldes on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @10:54AM (#39691940)
Like public parks maybe?
Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by sequoiamwah on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @09:06AM (#39690887)
65?
Re:Giant sequoias are a rapidly growing feature of the UK la... by nvdk on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @09:15AM (#39690958)
fixed, ty!