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Re:European crash tester says carmakers must bring back phys... by threeseed on Monday March 04, 2024 @08:56PM (#39598559)
I think the issue with the horn is referring to the Tesla Model S.

And specifically the horn button being capacitive co-located with the voice assistance and windscreen wiper buttons.

Which in a safety situation was difficult to locate and press.

Re:European crash tester says carmakers must bring back phys... by userbinator on Monday March 04, 2024 @09:41PM (#39598860)
Not the least bit helped by the fact that there seem to be several models all called the "Model S", but with very different controls.

https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/models/en_us/GUID-DEB259C...

For vehicles manufactured as of approximately January 2024: To sound the horn, press the middle of the steering yoke (or steering wheel). For vehicles manufactured prior to approximately January 2024: To sound the horn, press and hold the horn button on the right side of the steering yoke (or steering wheel).

"press and hold" doesn't seem like it'd be easy to do if all you wanted was a quick toot.

Re:European crash tester says carmakers must bring back phys... by hn_throwaway_99 on Tuesday March 05, 2024 @12:00AM (#39599618)
Thanks for that link, which has images. Jesus, the pre-2024 horn is insane. It's one tiny button among many on the right side (of that stupid yoke, but I digress...) The whole point of having the horn in the middle of the steering wheel is you can just mash it with your palm, no need to hunt for anything. Really wonder how that ever got into a production car in the first place.
Re:European crash tester says carmakers must bring back phys... by userbinator on Tuesday March 05, 2024 @12:23AM (#39599748)
The whole point of having the horn in the middle of the steering wheel is you can just mash it with your palm, no need to hunt for anything.

One can easily see this "meme" if one searches for images of "driver honking horn":

https://www.google.com/search?q=driver+honking+horn&tbm=isch

Re:European crash tester says carmakers must bring back phys... by rjmunro on Wednesday March 06, 2024 @09:16AM (#39616167)
I always worry about the interaction of sounding the horn and the airbag firing, sending your arm into your face.
Re:European crash tester says carmakers must bring back phys... by kergonath on Tuesday March 05, 2024 @02:02AM (#39600235)
> Really wonder how that ever got into a production car in the first place.

Teslas are the Dunning-Kruger cars. Designed by people who seemingly do not really know how to design cars (a wheel is boring; let’s put a yoke because video games! Look how cool we are! Also, touchscreens!) and built with poor quality control. I was not aware of the horn button, but if I had to guess, Tesla would be my first choice.

Re:European crash tester says carmakers must bring back phys... by darkwater on Tuesday March 05, 2024 @02:21AM (#39600334)
They just reverted the horn positioning in the soon-to-be-released refresh of the Model S/X.

Sometimes even Elon admits he was wrong.

Re:European crash tester says carmakers must bring back phys... by rlt on Tuesday March 05, 2024 @04:28AM (#39601158)
I mean, one of his mantras is "If you're not adding things back in at least 10% of the time, you're clearly not deleting enough."
Re:European crash tester says carmakers must bring back phys... by letitbeirie on Tuesday March 05, 2024 @03:41AM (#39600829)
It's weird that Tesla is being called out over the horn.

In driver's ed they tell you to not to use your horn when you're annoyed at other drivers - only use it if there's an imminent danger to avoid a crash.

But you better hope it works because if it doesn't, the airbag behind it explodes.

...

I'm not sure Tesla improved the situation, but it definitely seems like the situation has room for improvement.

Re:European crash tester says carmakers must bring back phys... by zarzavat on Tuesday March 05, 2024 @04:51AM (#39601323)
> In driver's ed they tell you to not to use your horn when you're annoyed at other drivers

This is definitely not a cultural universal. Different countries have different practices. In some places the horn simply means “I’m here, check your mirrors”, in other places it means “You bastard!”, and in some other places it means “We are both stuck in traffic let’s make as much noise as possible to pass the time”

> only use it if there's an imminent danger to avoid a crash

Therefore the difference between the horn being readily accessible and being hidden away could be the difference between life and death.

Re:European crash tester says carmakers must bring back phys... by watwut on Tuesday March 05, 2024 @07:45AM (#39602589)
And in others is it simply infraction worth of fine to use it in cities or nearby buildings for anything except danger.
Re:European crash tester says carmakers must bring back phys... by letitbeirie on Tuesday March 05, 2024 @12:37PM (#39606682)
> Therefore the difference between the horn being readily accessible and being hidden away could be the difference between life and death.

Being readily accessible is a must. The point I was trying to make (poorly; it was late) was that having the horn button in the middle of the wheel is about the worst place imaginable if you lay on the horn to avoid a crash and it happens anyway, because some portion of your arm is probably going to be broken when it gets crushed between an exploding airbag and your rapidly-decelerating body.

Re:European crash tester says carmakers must bring back phys... by RedShift1 on Tuesday March 05, 2024 @05:15AM (#39601488)
In danger imminent situations you might not have the time or mental capacity to think about buttons.
Re:European crash tester says carmakers must bring back phys... by astura on Tuesday March 05, 2024 @08:03AM (#39602783)
Exactly - you need to have quick access the horn in a safety critical use case, so it shouldn't be a small button you have to find among other small buttons. You should be able to mash the center of the steering wheel.

>But you better hope it works because if it doesn't, the airbag behind it explodes.

... what? I had a car who's horn stopped working and the airbag didn't explode or go off.

Re:European crash tester says carmakers must bring back phys... by nucleardog on Tuesday March 05, 2024 @11:41AM (#39605919)
Better hope it works to avoid the imminent danger.

If you hold your horn down trying to alert someone that you’re about the slam into them, your hand is going to be on the wheel as the airbag deploys.

Re:European crash tester says carmakers must bring back phys... by mgoetzke on Tuesday March 05, 2024 @05:25AM (#39601562)
I a safety situation by drivers used to old style cars ? but it doesnt matter, even Model S has it in the middle now again. good choice
Re:European crash tester says carmakers must bring back phys... by rsynnott on Tuesday March 05, 2024 @05:52AM (#39601773)
> And specifically the horn button being capacitive co-located with the voice assistance and windscreen wiper buttons.

... Wait, is this a real thing, or just a joke about them being bad at UX? If a real thing... goodness, I'm quite surprised that doesn't break some mandatory safety rule.

Re:European crash tester says carmakers must bring back phys... by mgoetzke on Tuesday March 05, 2024 @07:19AM (#39602388)
Recent Model S versions have the horn where it belongs
Re:European crash tester says carmakers must bring back phys... by kwhitefoot on Tuesday March 05, 2024 @07:22AM (#39602409)
Which years does this refer to? The horn on my 2015 S70D is huge pad in the centre of the steering wheel.